Dirtbik3r

Any suggestions. This was a WOT run. I have to find a way to hook up the vss still so ignore speed. Why is the knock retard like that? Point me in the right direction.

Dirtbik3r

I tried using an lt1 spark table and converting the kpa to lv8. Here it is:
32 48 64 80 96 112 128 144 160 176 192 208
4800 30.0 34.0 34.0 34.0 34.0 33.0 27.0 25.0 21.0 20.0 20.0 19.0
4400 30.0 34.0 34.0 34.0 34.0 33.0 29.0 26.0 21.0 20.0 20.0 19.0
4000 30.0 34.0 35.0 35.0 35.0 34.0 31.0 28.0 23.0 21.0 21.0 19.0
3600 30.0 34.0 35.0 35.0 36.0 35.0 32.0 30.0 25.0 24.0 21.0 19.5
3200 30.0 34.0 35.0 36.0 36.0 35.0 32.0 30.0 27.0 25.0 21.0 20.0
2800 30.0 34.0 36.0 36.0 35.0 34.5 32.5 31.0 28.0 25.0 22.0 21.0
2400 29.0 32.0 34.0 36.0 34.0 33.5 31.0 29.0 26.0 23.0 20.5 19.5
2200 28.5 31.0 33.0 35.0 33.5 33.0 20.0 28.0 25.0 23.0 19.0 18.0
2000 28.0 30.0 32.0 34.0 33.0 32.0 29.0 27.0 23.0 21.5 17.5 16.0
1800 27.5 29.0 30.5 33.0 32.5 31.0 27.5 25.0 20.5 18.0 15.0 13.0
1600 27.0 28.0 29.0 32.0 32.0 30.0 26.0 23.0 17.0 15.5 12.0 10.5
1400 26.0 27.0 28.0 30.0 30.0 28.0 24.0 21.0 15.0 13.0 10.0 8.0
1200 25.0 26.0 27.0 28.0 28.0 26.0 21.0 18.0 13.0 11.0 6.5 5.0
1000 24.0 25.0 25.0 25.5 26.0 24.0 18.0 16.0 11.0 8.0 5.0 3.0
800 23.0 23.0 23.0 23.0 21.0 19.0 14.0 11.0 7.0 5.0 0.0 -1.0
600 23.0 23.0 23.0 23.0 18.0 14.0 11.0 9.0 5.0 2.0 0.0 -2.0
400 23.0 23.0 23.0 23.0 18.0 14.0 11.0 9.0 5.0 2.0 -1.0 -2.0

I'm just having a lot of trouble and I'm getting extremely confused!!! I do have to admit the stock apyp table had more pull but deff. not as smooth

btcamaro

well according to the datalog you are only getting 2.02 volts at the tps. If this is correct and your foot was to the floor that could be part of the problem. also your 02 sensor seems to be a little low for a wot pass. I would start with the tps and go from there.

Dirtbik3r

How much should WOT be on a tps? Could a tps just go bad? It was new in the summer.

btcamaro

tps should be about 4.5 to 5 volts at wot. you might actually check it with a voltmeter to make sure that tunerpro is reporting the correct values.

Z69

Looks as if your TPS problem caused it to not go into PE.
So your lean and that caused knock.
Not a good situation.......

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Something is up with the alternator too. 11.5 volts at 4800 rpm is low.

Mangus

Looks like 6E, which means that the reported values are very likely to be correct. (I personally use 6E =).

The TPS issue is one I would consider severe and should be corrected. This type of problem is usually caused by a bad TPS, but I've personally seen it caused by a bad ECM as well (where that particular A/D channel went bad). Use a volt meter on the TPS to determine if it's the sensor. If you're seeing 4.5v at WOT on the sensor, then the problem is almost certainly the ECM.

Dirtbik3r

This is a new TPS and brand spanking new ecm. I'm getting 4.5V WOT at tps. Just hooked up the voltmeter. But I do get 1/2 a volt on idle.

About the alternator comment, my battery sucks and isn't holding a charge. It's stressing the alternator and I bet most of the current is going to the battery.

Mangus

Then it sounds like either somethings wrong w/ your electrical or the ECM (or both - bad electrical can certainly fry an ECM).

Dirtbik3r

Im just saying wiring is painless and its all new, tps and ecm are acdelco with the moates g1 adaptor in it.


How come btcamaro said, "tps should be about 4.5 to 5 volts at wot. you might actually check it with a voltmeter to make sure that tunerpro is reporting the correct values."

-I'm running PIG rich all the time.

Mangus

TunerPro does math on the raw input from the ECM. If that math is incorrect, the reported value would be incorrect. But I test it pretty extensively, so I'm relatively certain the math is correct.

The factor for the TPS value should be 0.019608. In the ALDL setup window, click "Edit ALDL Datastream Definition", expand the ALDL Sensor Data, select the TPS entry, and verify that the factor is set to 0.019608. If not, that's the problem. Correct it and verify that everything in the datalog is correct after the correction (you do not need to take another log, just playback the existing log after you make the correction).

Dirtbik3r

Factor is correct and set to 0.019608

Mangus

Then the problem is either in your electrical or your ECM.

You could probe the pin for the TPS on the ECM connector and verify that it's seeing 4.5v as well. If not, then you have a problem in your harness somewhere (when I say "in the harness", i don't necessarily mean that the harness is bad, but that maybe something is connected incorrectly, loose, etc). You might even have another electrical component sucking up power. Who knows?!

If you have a buddy with a 1227165 ECM, it might be worth connecting his ECM to your car and see if the problem goes away. If it does, you know your ECM is bad. If it doesn't, you have to troubleshoot your electrical (which is almost never fun).

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

If you think you have a TPS wiring problem, then test it by jumpering the V_ref_5v TPS signal to the ECM_TPS signal at the TPS. See if TP reads aprrox. 4.5volts. Then try it with the TPS_GND signal to the ECM_TPS at the TPS (at the TB). Nice acronym use....I hope you can follow it. After viewing what TP reads, place a voltmeter at the ECM pins to see what they are.

Did you test the TPS at WOT voltage with the engine off or running? Just curious.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Should be able to watch the reaction in the monitor window graph. Motor doesn't need to be on for that.
Just start logging and watch. Go from idle to WOT.
If you suspect the calculation in TP is wrong then just set it to a value of 1 and see the counts from 0-255 and manually do the voltage conversion.
If reaction isn't being seen in the log then the ECM is not seeing it either.
Then its just a "simple" matter of finding the wires that are at fault. Be sure to push the wires into the ECM connectors and wiggle them a bit. Might just be a loose connection there.

Edit: your fan is on MORE than always too

Dirtbik3r

Ok, heres a 3rd gear run i did yesterday. I guess tunerpro was just messed up before, look for yourself.

Mangus

Or the screen capture you took before was while you were transitioning out of the throttle. I suppose it's a shame none of us thought of that.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Probably because he stated it was a WOT ALDL sceenshot.

Yet again, the data doesn't make sense for WOT. TPS is low and MAP is low. Target AFR is high. O2 reads lean. Is it really WOT? I don't think so.

EDIT - MAF is almost maxed out. Still needs electrical system work. Low voltage.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

If you are really interested in WOT behaviour then export to a CSV file and post the real data at WOT from that file. You are guessing where the max. rpm is and doing a printscreen. By the time the OS does the printscreen it is no longer at WOT & max. rpm.

Z69

Something is up.
The Target AFR is at stoich and should be in the 12.5 range.
And the PW is low unless he has big injectors.
What is your PE vs TPS set to?
The SA looks a little low too w/o any KR.

Dirtbik3r

Using SVO 30lb injectors, double and single fire psi set at 32.48. (Is their a better way to do this?)

Stoich AFR set to 14.73(This was the stock APYP 6E value)


Min TPS to enable PE (NOT hot coolant, below 247F)
3600 70.31
2800 70.31
2000 70.31
1200 70.31
400 70.31


PE vs RPM
6400 -7.82
6000 -7.82
5600 -7.82
5200 -7.82
4800 -7.82
4400 -7.82
4000 -7.82
3600 -7.82
3200 0
2800 6.25
2400 6.25
2000 0
1600 0
1200 11.72
800 11.72
400 11.72
0 11.72

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, something is up. He needs to post data from a CSV file that shows the real WOT data. The info he is posting appears to be just after WOT (Good catch Mangus).

Post the WOT values from a CSV file, and not a screenshot.

Dirtbik3r

Alright, didn't know you could (export to excel) do that. Here is the CSV.
TunerPro RT data log recorded on 03/03/2006 17:35:18
PROM ID Throttle Position Coolant Temp Startup Coolant Temp Manifold Air Temperature (MAT) Battery Voltage Voltage At Fuel Pump Vehicle Speed Engine Speed NV Ratio Mass Air Flow (MAF) MAF Raw Input Load Variable (LV8) Engine Running Time Target AFR Oxygen Sensor O2 Cross Counts Integrator (INT) Block Learn (BLM) Block Learn Cell Injector Base Pulse Width Desired Idle Speed IAC Motor Position Spark Adv Rel. to TDC Spark Adv Rel. to Ref Pulse Knock Count Knock Retard Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) EGR Duty Cycle Charcoal Canister Duty Cycle Cooling Fan Duty Cycle
Sample # Volts Deg F Deg F Deg F Volts Volts MPH RPM RPM/MPH Grams Seconds mV Crosses mSec RPM Steps Degrees Degrees Degrees Volts % % %
1 0DA3 0.51 163.85 158.45 89.75 13.3 13 0 2250 255 20.03 20 43 771 14.69 874.68 65 117 128 7 0.92 775 6 30.23 24.26 109 0 1.9 0 0 101.59
2 0DA3 0.51 163.85 158.45 89.75 13.3 13 0 2200 255 20.11 20 44 771 14.69 874.68 65 116 128 7 0.92 775 6 30.23 24.26 109 0 1.9 0 0 101.59
3 0DA3 0.51 163.85 158.45 89.75 13.3 13 0 2175 255 20.34 20 44 772 14.69 856.92 65 115 128 7 0.89 775 6 30.23 24.26 109 0 1.9 0 0 101.59
4 0DA3 0.51 163.85 158.45 89.75 13.2 13 0 2200 255 20.98 19 44 772 14.69 870.24 65 128 126 7 1.07 775 6 30.23 24.26 109 0 1.9 0 0 101.59
5 0DA3 0.53 163.85 158.45 89.75 13.3 13 0 2175 255 20.46 21 45 772 14.69 816.96 65 127 126 7 1.05 775 6 30.59 24.61 109 0 1.9 0 0 101.59
6 0DA3 1.04 163.85 158.45 89.75 13.3 13 0 2175 255 56.22 102 100 772 14.69 865.8 65 126 108 15 2.12 775 23 24.61 18.63 109 0 1.9 0 0 101.59
7 0DA3 3.06 163.85 158.45 89.75 13 12.7 0 2450 255 116.99 126 226 772 11.68 452.88 66 128 128 15 7.55 775 43 25.66 11.6 111 4.6 1.9 0 0 101.59
8 0DA3 3.25 163.85 158.45 89.75 13 12.6 0 2150 255 102.99 126 216 772 11.74 919.08 67 128 128 15 7.08 775 50 23.91 10.9 111 4.1 1.9 0 0 101.59
9 0DA3 4.18 163.85 158.45 89 12.7 12.4 0 3275 255 177.99 218 255 774 12.09 879.12 67 128 128 15 7.83 775 50 32.7 18.28 112 4.9 1.88 0 0 101.59
10 0DA3 4.18 163.85 158.45 89 12.7 12.4 0 3375 255 186.99 233 255 774 12.18 896.88 67 128 128 15 7.92 775 50 31.99 26.02 113 4.7 1.88 0 0 101.59
11 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 89 12.7 12.5 0 3400 255 188.99 254 255 774 12.2 879.12 67 128 128 15 7.95 775 50 31.99 17.93 113 4.7 1.88 0 0 101.59
12 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 89 12.8 12.5 0 3500 255 195.99 254 255 774 12.34 879.12 67 128 128 15 7.98 775 50 31.29 16.17 113 5.2 1.88 0 0 101.59
13 0DA3 4.18 163.85 158.45 89 12.8 12.4 0 3575 255 197.99 254 255 775 12.37 896.88 67 128 128 15 7.95 775 50 31.29 15.47 113 5.2 1.88 0 0 101.59
14 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 89 12.7 12.4 0 3675 255 204.99 254 255 775 12.37 892.44 67 128 128 15 7.92 775 50 30.59 16.52 113 4.6 1.88 0 0 101.59
15 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 89 12.7 12.4 0 3675 255 207.99 254 255 775 12.37 883.56 67 128 128 15 8.07 775 50 30.23 17.23 113 4 1.88 0 0 101.59
16 0DA3 4.18 163.85 158.45 89 12.8 12.4 0 3775 255 208.99 254 255 775 12.37 879.12 67 128 128 15 7.86 775 50 29.18 16.17 113 4 1.88 0 0 101.59
17 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 89 12.7 12.4 0 3875 255 213.99 254 255 775 12.37 874.68 67 128 128 15 7.89 775 50 28.83 16.88 113 3.5 1.88 0 0 101.59
18 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 89 12.4 12.2 0 3950 255 219.99 254 255 775 12.37 874.68 67 128 128 15 7.98 775 50 28.13 16.88 113 3.5 1.88 0 0 101.59
19 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 89 12.7 12.3 0 4025 255 219.99 254 255 775 12.37 892.44 67 128 128 15 7.8 775 50 28.13 16.88 113 3.1 1.88 0 0 101.59
20 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 89 12.5 12.3 0 4050 255 221.99 254 255 775 12.37 870.24 67 128 128 15 7.83 775 50 27.77 17.23 113 2.7 1.88 0 0 101.59
21 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 88.25 12.4 12.2 0 4100 255 226.99 254 255 776 12.37 874.68 67 128 128 15 7.89 775 50 27.42 16.88 113 2.7 1.88 0 0 101.59
22 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 88.25 12.3 12.1 0 4225 255 228.99 254 255 776 12.37 888 67 128 128 15 7.86 775 50 27.42 17.23 113 2.4 1.88 0 0 101.59
23 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 87.5 12.2 12.1 0 4275 255 231.99 254 255 776 12.37 883.56 67 128 128 15 7.86 775 50 26.72 16.52 113 2.4 1.86 0 0 101.59
24 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 88.25 12.4 12.2 0 4325 255 233.99 254 255 776 12.37 874.68 67 128 128 15 7.72 775 50 26.72 17.23 113 2.1 1.88 0 0 101.59
25 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 88.25 12.5 12.2 0 4350 255 234.98 254 255 776 12.37 856.92 67 128 128 15 7.71 775 50 26.72 16.88 113 2.1 1.88 0 0 101.59
26 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 88.25 12.4 12.1 0 4475 255 237.98 254 252 776 12.37 861.36 67 128 128 15 7.6 775 50 25.66 16.52 113 1.8 1.88 0 0 101.59
27 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 87.5 12.7 12.3 0 4500 255 238.98 254 253 776 12.37 848.04 67 128 128 15 7.6 775 50 25.31 16.17 113 1.8 1.86 0 0 101.59
28 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 86.75 12.5 12.3 0 4575 255 240.98 254 254 776 12.37 861.36 67 128 128 15 7.55 775 50 25.31 16.52 113 1.6 1.84 0 0 101.59
29 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 87.5 12.5 12.2 0 4600 255 240.98 254 247 776 12.37 839.16 67 128 128 15 7.42 775 50 25.31 16.88 113 1.4 1.86 0 0 101.59
30 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 86.75 12.6 12.3 0 4625 255 241.98 254 247 777 12.37 839.16 67 128 128 15 7.39 775 50 24.61 16.17 113 1.4 1.84 0 0 101.59
31 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 86.75 12.5 12.3 0 4850 255 244.98 254 244 777 12.37 834.72 67 128 128 15 7.26 775 50 24.61 16.52 113 1.2 1.84 0 0 101.59
32 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 86.75 12.6 12.3 0 4850 255 244.98 254 240 777 12.37 825.84 67 128 128 15 7.22 775 50 24.61 16.52 113 1.2 1.84 0 0 101.59
33 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 87.5 12.6 12.3 0 4900 255 245.98 254 240 777 12.37 812.52 67 128 128 15 7.14 775 50 24.61 15.82 113 1.7 1.86 0 0 101.59
34 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 87.5 12.4 12.2 0 4950 255 245.98 254 241 777 12.37 821.4 67 128 128 15 7.17 775 50 24.61 15.82 113 1.7 1.86 0 0 101.59
35 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 87.5 12.4 12.2 0 4975 255 245.98 254 235 777 12.37 808.08 67 128 128 15 7 775 50 24.61 16.17 113 1.5 1.86 0 0 101.59
36 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 86 12.6 12.3 0 5075 255 246.98 254 229 777 12.37 759.24 67 128 128 15 6.99 775 50 24.61 16.17 113 1.5 1.84 0 0 101.59
37 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 87.5 12.4 12.2 0 5150 255 246.98 254 232 777 12.37 648.24 67 128 128 15 6.85 775 50 24.61 16.52 113 1.3 1.86 0 0 101.59
38 0DA3 4.2 162.5 158.45 86.75 12.6 12.3 0 5175 255 246.98 254 229 777 12.37 404.04 68 128 128 15 6.81 775 50 24.61 16.52 113 1.1 1.84 0 0 101.59
39 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 87.5 12.5 12.3 0 5200 255 247.23 254 227 777 12.37 13.32 68 128 128 15 6.7 775 50 24.61 16.88 113 1.1 1.86 0 0 101.59
40 0DA3 4.2 162.5 158.45 86.75 12.4 12.2 0 5225 255 246.98 254 224 778 12.37 4.44 68 128 128 15 6.67 775 50 24.61 16.88 113 1 1.84 0 0 101.59
41 0DA3 4.2 162.5 158.45 86 12.5 12.2 0 5250 255 246.98 254 223 778 12.37 4.44 68 128 128 15 6.67 775 50 24.61 16.88 113 1 1.84 0 0 101.59
42 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 86 12.5 12.2 0 5425 255 246.98 254 220 778 12.37 4.44 68 128 128 15 6.52 775 50 24.61 17.23 113 0.9 1.84 0 0 101.59
43 0DA3 4.2 163.85 158.45 86 12.5 12.2 0 5425 255 246.98 254 218 778 12.37 4.44 68 128 128 15 6.41 775 50 24.61 18.63 113 0.9 1.84 0 0 101.59
44 0DA3 4.2 162.5 158.45 86 12.5 12.2 0 5425 255 246.98 254 217 778 12.37 4.44 68 128 128 15 6.45 775 50 24.61 17.23 113 0.8 1.84 0 0 101.59
45 0DA3 4.2 162.5 158.45 86.75 12.3 12.1 0 5500 255 246.98 254 213 778 12.37 4.44 68 128 128 15 6.45 775 50 24.61 17.23 113 0.8 1.84 0 0 101.59
46 0DA3 3.67 162.5 158.45 86.75 12.3 12.1 0 5575 255 246.98 254 210 778 14.69 4.44 68 128 128 15 6.35 775 50 24.61 17.58 113 0.7 1.84 0 0 101.59
47 0DA3 0.43 162.5 158.45 85.25 12.7 12.3 0 5500 255 200.36 79 218 778 14.69 910.2 69 128 108 15 3.31 775 48 23.55 16.52 113 0.7 1.82 0 0 101.59
48 0DA3 0.43 163.85 158.45 86.75 12.9 12.6 0 4950 255 28.97 26 30 779 14.69 790.32 69 128 108 15 0.58 775 44 34.1 27.07 113 0.6 1.84 0 0 101.59
49 0DA3 0.43 163.85 158.45 86.75 13 12.7 0 4675 255 22.98 22 24 779 14.69 768.12 69 128 108 11 0.49 775 40 34.1 27.42 113 0.5 1.84 0 0 101.59

Mangus

TPS voltage of 4.2 at WOT is low (by at least .3v). You're maxing your MAF, which seems a little strange (perhaps also an electrical issue). I also notice your battery and fuel pump voltage drops as your RPMs increase. It starts out normal, then gets down to 12.1v. Something is up there.

I still concur with the other guys that something is funny with your electrical system. Your alternator might be giving up at higher RPMs or your coil is causing you issues. Or something.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

It goes lean around 5075 RPM. I am guessing you are still using the TPI fuel curve. You need to adjust it for the HSR and 360ci. You are not running out of injector yet, but it is lean so who knows where it will go.
It looks to be making a peak of approx. 310 crank HP.
[(2*6.5ms) / (120/5500rpm)] = .64; [30#/hr * .64 = 19.1 #/hr
At .85 Duty Cycle, then inj is 19.1/.85 = 22.5#/hr which is about 310 crank HP at .50 BSFC.
Anyway, it needs tuning above 5000 rpm to get more HP out of it.

Dirtbik3r

Makes sense. Which table is the fuel curve? PE vs RPM? I'm new at this and trying to learn it step by step. So once I have the fuel curve table, I gotta tweak 5000rpm and up.

Could this be something stupid like my fuel pressure at the AFPR is too low?

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I would leave the AFPR at the stock fuel pressure for now. At this point there is no reason to set it any differently.

Go to Third Generation F-Bodies > Tech Boards > DIY PROM > The Prom Tuning Guide Book and FAQ: Common Questions and Answers, then Chapter 5 and read the "165" posts.
It will explain how the tables work.

Dirtbik3r

Alright, will do. I have read through Chapter 5 twice already. I've noticed that they are using a $32 and $32b to explain the fuel tuning. What about 6E? No one really gets into it. I don't have a BPW FUEL vs LOAD table. This is holding me back.

Dirtbik3r

TTT my last reply...





-replied before TGO went down for a week.

Mangus

MAF tables. The info is out there.