Bones232

I am curious if i would be able to datalog my 160baud aldl stream at the same time as innovate's LC-1 WB.

They both use a serial connection to datalog to a pc. Would i be able to use one in the serial port and the other in a USB port if i had a serial to USB converter?

It has been my experience that anytime you run more than one program requiring any processor capacity, bad things happen.

3.8TransAM

There is a code patch for the $8d, $6E and $58 codes.

I am not sure if one is available for the TBI cars.

I'm sure someone will chime in if there is one indeed. Jon or Rbob will know.

later
Jeremy

Dominic Sorresso

Bones,

When you think about it, what's the sense of it? I have been tuning over the last 9months using my ZT-2 WB O2 rather than my EASE scantool. Once you see the results coming from 30 frames/sec, you realize there just isn't any way to really tune a modded motor at 1 frame/sec. I have datalogged both my WB and scantool on the same runs. Tuning for WOT, for instance, my motor could spin to 5700rpm, but the scantool would miss that entire sequence.

Bones232

I would be looking to the aldl stream for the data not requiring the super fast logging (ie. IAC count, INT, BLM, Coolant temp, flags, etc.).

The WB would be used primarily to examine AE, WOT runs and AFR during cruising. IMO It would be more convienent for me if both were running during my test runs.

Who makes the ZT-2 WB? Do you datalog any other engine metric with your ZT-2 WB?

The LC-1 is considerably cheaper than the LM-1 and obviously has lots less capability. Although if i can get what i need out of the LC-1, why get anything more?

Thanks for the input

Dominic Sorresso

Bones,

If you think you need a high speed data stream for "cruising" AFR,
what do you think the INT and BLMs are for? The 160baud ALDL on the 7747 ECM creates mismatches among various data elements being recorded. IOW, that BLM may not have been caused by or happened with the MAP reading in the same frame.
I lock my BLMs and INT and just tune the VE tables using the WB.
I need to drive around for over 30 minutes to get 2000 frames from my scantool. In the same 30 minutes I'll get 160,000 with the WB. More data, faster is better.
As Grumpy will tell you, the less intervention needed by the ECM, the better. So if the VE tables are very close without having the ECM make fuel changes, the better off you are. I drive my Vette right now only on the VE table. With the BLM/INT locked the NB O2 isn't causing the ECM to modify them.
MY ZT-2 logs RPM/MAPv/AFR/TPS%. It allows you to log any single param you want as long as you can hook up their controller to it.
You can find it at www.zeitronix.com

Craig Moates

Might also check into that thingie (UTBI) these guys around here are conjuring up. It'll give you high-speed data from your TBI, and I think they threw some A/D inputs in as well.

JPrevost

The software is already configured for a variety of WB signals. Just click which channel it's plugged into and which WB it is, program does the rest. Sure beats inputting tables into the code to do the look-up and then fitting it into the ALDL . All there, all the time and nearly twice as fast.

Dominic Sorresso

Jon,

We are not worthy.
Any chance the WB input could be selected as the basis for making the changes to the VE tables?

Z69

JPrevost

Well actually, yes. But I don't think I'll make it real-time. Basically speaking there is a post processing program that'll go through a datalog and spit out a new VE based on BLM right now. When the main program gets all of it's needed features and bugs worked out then I'll spend more time on the other software. Open loop WB tuning is definatly on that list. The simplicity is that it'll look at the ecm's desired AFR and correct the VE to get that desired AFR from actual AFR. It'll ignore transients so that AE and all that jazzyness that can through "auto" tuning software for a loop.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

DOM: i have been running OL past 40 days and paying attention to WB logs. i am running a bit rich (on purpose) at about 13.0/1 at speeds under 50 mph and at about 15.0/1 at speeds over 50.
this is with no AE invoke.

now Q is the MAP in LM1 shows volts as does TPS. is the voltage i see linear with respect to MAP? i see in tunercat(20%- 100% MAP). IOW can i interpolate the voltage i see in WB log to MAP(20-30-40 etc)? i can see on WB when i move into a diff VE cell A/F ratio changing. what i did is go back to CL for a datalog to attempt to keep those BLM's consistent(124) and resulting A/F consistent. then i would make a change in fueling and back to OL. i was shooting for 124 across the board(rich) to crutch the AE. just seems to run better in OL and a tad rich. especially idle quality.

i would agree that logging with WB seems have an advantage then logging CL BLM's. just my experience.

Dominic Sorresso

Ron,

Just take the MAP Volts and use this in .xls:


=((cell number of MAP volt/0.0196) * 0.369) + 10.415

to convert to kPa

Try running C/L but with BLM and INT locked at 128. See what happens. My car cruised fine in C/L even with blown head gasket.
It was at idle or trailing throttle that I had a problem. At idle I would notice the INT dropping like a rock, then reset which brought on a stumble. With your cam, the expanded VE tables in
Embedded Lockers will be a godsend. Now my idle will range from the mid 13's to low 14's and motor idles between 850 to 900 rpm.

Bones232

Dom: Is there any reason you choose to lock your INT/BLMs instead of inhibiting CL all together?

JPrevost

I'm not him but maybe it was to use the open loop AFR values during start-up but then go into the 14.7 AFR for everything when the engine is warmed up. From there, he's still got PE mode to richen up the AFR and Highway to lean it out.
I can't remember the last time I locked the BLM/INT and kept closed loop. Wouldn't the o2 high/low error get evoked? Dom, do you disable it? Can you tell it's been a while for me .

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

thanks Dom.

Dominic Sorresso

Jon,

If you define C/L as the O2 sensor modifyng the VE tables, then by locking the BLM/INT, I am disabling that. Its using whatever value is in the VE table which then results in the AFR I read in the WB. I basically try to get the AFR as close to 14.7 as I can using only the VE table mods. Then I'll unlock the BLMs/INT and make some, hopefully minor tweaks. I usually keep the TPS% for PE up around 80+% and try to manage the AE as much as possible. for Part Throttle. Originally, I would lock the BLM only when I didn't have the WB, because the INT would change much more rapidly at 160 baud. Once I got the INT to 128, then I'd unlock the BLM for tweaking further. And no I don't get an O2 High/Low. The AFR is close enough where it doesn't trigger those DTCs. I have gotten I think a code 45 for High O2 Volts and I could see it on the WB Display. One other thing RBob has had me do is play with the Injector Bias and disabled Asynch.

JPrevost

Thanks. Yeah, disabling Async is a huge help. I've done it on every TBI I've touched with no issues.
I figured you'd get a high o2 or low o2 error at least once . If you're bouncing around 14.7 and the VE's are close during a drive you should be swinging it slightly above and below that point making the narrow band move high/low... if you sat at idle for a while or cruising at a steady non-highway mode it would through a code.

Bones232

I disabled the Async as well.

When you were adjusting the injector bias, what were you trying to accomplish? Did you end up raising it or lowering it?

Dominic Sorresso

I won't say I'm the expert on this. I'll leave that to RBob. For my understanding, I think of IB as similar to SA. Understanding that it will take a time "x" to open the injector, the IB is the amount of time the ECM will use to anticipate that opening. The more IB, the more actual time the injector PW is devoted to BEING open rather than OPENING. So if your total PW is 1.5msec but it takes .78msec to open the injector, the actual PW is only .72msec. This is assuming no IB. Most stock bins will use an IB of .396 or something like that. Therefore, of the .78msec it takes to open the injector, .396msec will be anticipated by the ECM, leaving the actual Injector PW to be 1.5-.384. By increasing the IB, you can see that more time is left for the actual injector to be open. The closer you get the commanded PW to actual PW, the more accurate your VE and the closer commanded AFR is to Actual AFR at WOT. I have continued to increase it as one way of enrichening the mixture without changing the VE tables. I do change the VE however to bring them back into Stoich. Sometimes you end up with some areas of the VE tables that are pretty funky and don't "make sense". Using the IB brings those areas more into line with the rest of the VE table. Again just like SA, you increase the advance as the rpms increase because the time element for completing Intake/Exhaust cycle becomes very small.
The higher the rpms, the less time the injector has to do its work.
One other note. This all helps when you have the DC% in good shape. Obviously, if the DC% of the Injectors is at or over 100% at WOT, the IB isn't going to help much. SO you want to tune WOT and make sure you have the right size injectors at the right pressure to supply the needed fuel volume.

RBob/Jon, please make sure I have provided an accurate account of the use of the IB.

Dominic Sorresso

Jon,

I did get a few, but very few codes. At idle none at all. At cruise, 1 or 2 and only just recently. I adjusted the VE table and haven't gotten any since.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Dominic, looks dead on to me. Typically, raising the fuel pressure or using larger injectors increases the opening time.

RBob.

Dominic Sorresso

Not trying to be redundant, but your point being that more fuel means the Injector Bias becomes more critical to correct fueling.
Do I have that pretty well summed?

Bones232

Excellent answer That clears up a lot of fog about IB, thanks.

I also find your VE tuning very interesting. I'll have to give it a try come spring time.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Yes, the more fuel capacity per CI and the IB becomes more critical.

RBob.