DM91RS

I remembered a thread and here it is for some good info and history on the subject at hand.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...&highlight=HUD

Also this bit of history:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...&highlight=hud

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Ive been away for awhile.. im no longer a thirdgener, but I had to know how you fixed this and whether or not this new code does this:




It has been haunting me. I never was able to get the car to run right and now it has gone to car heaven.


Also, what kind of royalties am I looking at getting for the "Ultimate TBI" name? just kidding. You guys are doing incredible work.



Pablo
86 T-TYPE...booooooost

Gladstoneiroc

iTrader: (1)

This is amazing. I hope I can get one before xmas. I'm normally pretty tight with my money, but I could see spending the money for this.
So all I will need is my physical programmer, my laptop, and this?

Dave_Jones

Heads-Up Display*


A HUD is a device originally developed in fighter aircraft in the 1960s that projects critical information so it's readable by the pilot as he looks through the canopy, and he doesn't have to take his eyes off the enemy to look down at the gauges.

C5/C6 Corvettes and a few other high-end cars can be had with a HUD that projects MPH and RPM on the windshield, either in numerical digits or a bargraph display.

Obviously, nothing involving a laptop screen is a true HUD -- in this case it's a very cool name for something that puts all the critical data in one place.


(*unless Jon invented another meaning for the acronym -- Homeboy's Ultimate Datalogger, maybe? )

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

I think we have a winner there

Very nice work indeed

DM91RS

Thanks.



Yeah.......it didn't sink in for a while untill I googled it LOL.

Dominic Sorresso

Pablo,

With no intention of hijacking this thread, weren't you having issues with a surging idle on your 3rd Gen?

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

hmmm a long time ago... the IAC seemed to always want to go wide open. I never had the time nor motivation to figure it out so I just axed the IAC. The big problem I had was the high rpm sour note the engine would hit with tbi.

dkedrowitsch

So will the software include the LabVIEW runtime?

91RedFirebird

Thank you! *wipes tears from his eyes*

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Jon could give a better answer as to which piece we will supply. However, it will come with whatever is allowed to be distributed in order for NI LabView apps to run.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Been working away on the layout, here is a pic of how the board will fit inside of the ECM. The little board is removed and the Embedded Lockers soldered in. This pic is a printed image of the PCB form the layout software. I placed it in an ECM to show the fit. It will mount with the same three points as the original little board.

The EPROM is in the normal location, the CALPAK/NETRES has been shifted to the right. The 12-position terminal bus along the bottom edge is for the ADC inputs (8), ADC grounds (3), and a 5 volt serial interface.

To the left of that is the 2-position terminal bus for the serial RS-232 output (to the HUD).

The logic/parts on the other side of the two long solder strips (JP1 & JP2) (toward harness connectors) is the actual Lockers hardware.

Once I have boards I'll provide better pictures.

RBob.

DM91RS

RBob...........you are packing alot in there

Sorry if I've missed this somewhere but does this version of lockers still have to be setup with a scope?

Thanks for keeping us posted

JPrevost

Why wouldnt it be?
http://digital.ni.com/softlib.nsf/we...node=132070_US

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Nope, no scope, all fixed timing. That was a primary area of the redesign. Took a while to figure it all out, but it was worth it. Runs like a champ, hot, cold, and inbetween.

RBob.

Dewey316

Rbob, What kind of usability would this get for using it in a forced induction setup? would the new fueling tables, and spark featurs, give you enough resolution to say, set the fueling to work with a 2bar MAP?

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

Wow, thanks RBob I've been waiting soo long to see this post! I read through it so frantically and excitedly I kept having to go back and re-read things because I went over them too quickly.

I'm definitely down for one whenever you get them going, can't wait. Godspeed to you with finishing it up. Any way you could project a time frame we're looking at?

justlearning

will this also have the socket i need either zif or dip socket i belive not sure which where i can use flashable chips and remove easliy??

Gladstoneiroc

iTrader: (1)

I have two more questions that go along with what justlearning and Dewey said. Could it be compadable with a wb02 also? Could it use 29c256 chips directly without adaptors?

JPrevost

What do you mean compadable? If you mean closed loop with a 0-5v o2 sensor then no, if you mean datalogging then yes.
Yes, the 29c256 chips will plug right in no adaptors.
I don't think a zif will be included but there's no reason you can't add one. It's a good investment but not necessary. Without the zif and just a socket the eprom appears as if to sit low enough for the cover... if I can find the cover, it's just been so long since I last used it

justlearning

isnt a zif socket just for eaisier removal of the chip??...i got a ecm from a board member and the chip in it pulled out w/ out much trouble whats supposed to be so good about the zif socket anyway?

Bones232

any idea when you plan to make it available?

BMmonteSS

The stock chip socket isn't like a real chip socket. The stocker requires the use of the factory plastic holder, or some creative bending of the legs of the chip. A real chip holder is hard to get the chip out of, and I've bent my share of pins with them. A ZIF completely eleminates the chance of bending pins. Get one off of Mr. Moates along with your chips.

So how are you guys going to sell this stuff? Money order, pay pal......I just need to know how to accept payment for my liver

justlearning

bmonte let me know and we can do a group sell for both of our livers.

justlearning

i was just wondering if u had a release date planned or hoped for ?? and will this be offered on a site or just through paypal etc...?? thanks guys looking forward to this should make dataloggin to get timming and blms down alot easier for a first timmer like my self since i will be able to get more than one point a second!!! good luck and keep it up
John

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

PATIENCE. PATIENCE. my car goes in barn 11/15/2005 so i have all winter to save up $$. looking forward to use this Spring!

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

RBob,

How does the UTBI code handle the fueling now? Did you switch it over to full speed density? I was always a bit skeptical of all-out true speed density with a wetflow system but theoretically the fuel should only result in a theoretical 2-3% displacement by volume of air when it vaporizes (at stoich). Itll introduce a bias but but it should be tolerable. In theory the steady state fueling should boil down to adjusting the VE tables and the blend of IAT and CTS so the density is accuratly reflected and that should be it. Im really starting to warm up to using it. Actually running it will be the acid test, though. The stock fueling stratagy in the ecms was a disaster for me. Never ran right.

JPrevost

We met on Saturday to get on the same page with development work. I've now got what I need to put some finishing touchs to the software. We had a tuff time deciding what to use for a cable connection. I think we're going with rj11 socket in the ecm, then your typical phone cord to a rj11-db9 adaptor.
The software is compatible with all serial ports and the Radio Shack USB-Serial adaptor.
Bob's finalizing the design before boards are to be made then it's some more testing. In the mean time I'm going to try and setup a website and see how to accept payments. As it stands I think credit card might be out of the question . Don't hold me to that, I'll try my best because I know people like to pay with plastic these days instead of money .
A projected price and release date will come when we feel we can answer that so please, don't ask anymore. All I can promise is that we're moving along to complete this ASAP. We're not rushing but we aren't making any sacrifices with the product. It will be like we said, nothing less.

BMmonteSS

Jon, paypal may be the way to go for you guys, that way if some one wants to use their plastic, they can eat the added cost instead of you guys.

JPrevost

Isn't it the seller that gets ripped off with paypal, not the buyer? We'll think about it and we might just charge more to the buyers wanting to pay with paypal... that's still up in the air.

BMmonteSS

I think it's the seller that gets the stinky end of the stick if they accept cards directly, but the buyer gets it if they list a credit card on their account to be charged to. I may have that all backwards.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Could just do money orders. I think people can take an extra 5 minutes out of their day to get a western union/post office MO for a nominal ammount.

Z69

They charge me 2.9% when I accept a CC.
I just add a little to the shipping.
I don't recall seeing an extra amt added when I bought using a CC.

DM91RS

Since this threads just sitting

Sorry if this was covered and it did not sink in

Since there is an autotune feature how are the ve tables going to be viewed? The same type of charts as reads out on winaldl?

Will the user be able to control the hud as in what it displays?

Are the tables in the ultimate tbicode going to be similar to the ones now in TC and TP? Just enlarged and improved?

Thanks for any info DM

JPrevost

The autotune is still in beta testing. Currently there is a plotted out BLM table the same size and dimension of the VE table. Knock counts are the same way. They're sized to the Main SA table.
As for how it does the tuning, that's where we're still flexible. Basically here's how I want it all to work out. You tell the software what bin file you're using. The software looks at the PromID and when you're datalogging, it will check to see that the PromID matchs the datastream. If that is good, it will then do some checks to make sure the data is "good" for learning. Things like AE, BLM cell change, Open loop, PE mode, highway mode, and various other flags will turn off the learning. When you're cruising along in closed loop in no special mode and you aren't stabbing the throttle is when the autotuning will take place. On the autotune tab in the software you can watch the BLM plot in 3D along with the "new" VE table being updated real-time. For those with emulators, click the update and the learn will reset and you will be using the new VE table. What I've been stumbling with is how to do smoothing. I don't want the VE table to end up lumpy because you never got into a certain area of the table... also, I've only got support right now for the Romulator emulator.
Really it's nothing special. It's basically cutting down on the time it takes to use a seperate program like excel or my old pearl script aldl2bin.
The user will not be able to change the HUD. That's too much programming and LabView isn't very nice with autosizing. SO... my plans are to have 3 version of the software for different powered computers with different resolutions. Basically speaking there will be a 800x600, 1024x768, and 1280x1024 version. Install the 800x600 if you've got a slower older laptop and then install the 1280x1024 on your desktop for when you want to replay datalogs with more eyecandy.
Yes, ultimate TBI tables will be improved versions of the 8747. Basically bigger and no adder/slope tables.

Dominic Sorresso

Jon,

Any chance we'll be able to specify the tolerances we want for the observations to be used in calculating the new VE? What about support for the Moates Ostrich?

JPrevost

Yes, there is a strong chance that I'll be adding the ability to fine tune the autotune, lol, that just doesn't sound right does it.
As for the Ostrich, it's up to Craig if he wants to tell me how to talk to his Ostrich/Autoprom. Well... it's not really up to him since it's not hard to just ungineer the protocol with a "sniffer" type program. It's how this whole thing got started. RBob didn't want to give me his headsup software he wrote for dos so I decided to just use a serial sniffer and make my own .
For those that don't like the idea of not being able to adjust what is displayed on the front screen... don't fret. There is a a diagnostics tab that will let you look at everything, including the timers (they're a blur to the eye). The diagnostics tab also has a line plotter where you can select 2 ram locations and vew them in raw byte form (0-255 decimal). I'm adding a 3D chart that is completely user definable. Select RPM for x-axis, MAP for y-axis, and SA for the z to get an idea of what your timing tables look like with everything factored in .

DM91RS

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JPrevost

1. The autotune is still in beta testing.

It would be super kool even if it didn't have this feature.



2. The user will not be able to change the HUD.

I'm sure most will agree that it will not matter.


3. Yes, ultimate TBI tables will be improved versions of the 8747. Basically bigger and no adder/slope tables.

Do you mean 8747 and not 8746?


4. When you say ostrich support.....do you mean for the autotune
feature and not normal tuning.


Thanks DM

JPrevost

DM91RS
1. Yes it's still beta testing so it's not a focal point. We can always be updating the software. Making it functional and non-buggy is more improtant than feature rich content that flakes out.
2. There won't be a need to edit the HUD. It will display everything important. When you want to display something out of the norm you can do so with 1 user configurable gauge. You tell it what ram location you want to display and then in the configuration tell it the formula you want to use to convert it to real world values. An example of this would be the injector pulse width. There is no real need to know this value but injector DC is very important. So instead of displaying DC, you want PW, no problem, change it up and change the formula.
3. I said 8747 because it has 1 complete table as apposed to the 747/8746's adder and slopes.
4. Yes, the ostrich would be for autotuning.

DM91RS

It all sounds kool JP

Keep up the good work!!

Thanks DM

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Figured that it was a good time for an update. The PCB layout is close to completion. I am in progress with the last items: silkscreen, copper pours, and a fine tooth comb. Shortly it will be out to the board house.

Parts list is being finalized. Orders for parts will be placed at the same time the PCB order goes out.

As for the release, the HUD and Setup Wizard will be completed. They will accompany the first release of the hardware. There will also be an ECU file and a calibration table document. Everything that is required to get the Embedded Lockers running, usable, and tuned.

As for the Ultimate-TBI code, it can not be compared to any GM TBI code. It is so enhanced over GM TBI ECM code that there is no way to relate it to any stock code.

As soon as I have the PCB out to the board house I'll continue work on the calibration document. This will show how far beyond any TBI (or even MPFI) code this is.

It is designed to make tuning easy and flexible. GM never had to worry about engine with cams at 108° LSA. The U-TBI code handles that. GM never had to worry about a soft rev limiter, the U-TBI code handles that.

GM never had to worry about N2O. The U-TBI handles that (wet system). Electric fan, expanded VE and SA tables. Expanded AE tables, with filtered MAP and TPS terms. Plus an AE vs. RPM table. AE is sync mode, this works so much better then the stock GM async AE. In general many tables are larger for better resolution. It really does make the engine run better.

There are so many enhancements in the U-TBI code it is difficult to expound on all of them. The code will work on mild buildups to hot build ups. I run the same code on a hot 327 along with a stock LG4. Different calibration, but the same code.

Oh, and the IAC routines, major improvement. These are a major improvement over the stock IAC stuff. A key on IAC crank position prevents startup flair. Then a full time idle control mode. No floating idles in park/neut, or until the engine is up to temperature.

Great stuff,

RBob.

Bones232

I'm very interested in seeing this set up. I don't know what I'm going to do with all this information. I won't have to guess how my motor is running anymore

I'm closing in on 350 chips on the 8746 and have never found a combination that I liked. You think I would have accidentally got one right by now

Anyways, you guys are doing a great job. Keep it up...

Dominic Sorresso

I agree with you here Jon. Good to try and avoid feature creep.
Get a good solid working application out there and then add to it later but cover the minimum requirements out of the box.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

D@MN, RBob, sure wish you were running $8D instead of a TBI, then I'd be chomping at the bit, too!

BMmonteSS

Keep jousting, I bet you could get him to rewrite the code to handle MPI. Seems like the TBI ecm's would fire MPI injectors with no problem since they have two injector drivers. Thats just a WAG, I'm sure there's other reasons why it won't work easily.


What???? Did some one say feature creep?

DM91RS

Rbob......glad to hear that the hardware is moving along.

As far as the code I'd buy it just for;


{The IAC routines, major improvement. These are a major improvement over the stock IAC stuff. A key on IAC crank position prevents startup flair. Then a full time idle control mode. No floating idles in park/neut, or until the engine is up to temperature.}


My idle is the worst part of my present tune. (not moving its fine)

Bob

justlearning

no rush or anything cause id rather wait for a good finished product w/ nice features and solid code but i sure hope this things ready in the next three months so i can start tunning my setup on this when the time comes after i adjust and practice w/ the stock .bin. and u guys should get some some stickies for this code in the works if possible so that newbs like me can grasp some of the new tables and features to fine tune if that setup feature dosent work out as planned. thanks
John

Teeleton

Damn.. I was just about to embark on my $0D conversion to get the faster sampling rate and additional diag info, but now I'm wondering if it's worth it if this thing almost ready to drop. Would sure save me the trouble of building the adapter harness, since I already have a 7747 in it.

Teeleton

Dominic Sorresso

Exactly the situation I have found myself in. I have already built harness adapter for 8625 but now everything is on hold till I can get this. Besides the HUD, one thing about UTBI is that the 7747 hack is pretty well documented unlike the 8625. Expanded VE/SA tables, higher baud rate, and autotune make this a no-brainer.

BMmonteSS

From the sound of things, the 747 hack won't do you much good. Rbob has changed so much their isn't much stock code left.

Rbob, do you plan on releasing a commented hack? I completely understand if you don't, it would suck big ones if Brian at TBI chips started offering Super ultimate tbi kits.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Send me your 8625 as well as its harness adapter and all other items. No, Im not working on a hack, itll never be done!!! Just make sure to send me your now useless P6 pcm and harness adaptor...