88TPI406GTA

Hello.

I would like to convert from an existing DFI setup to a 730 and am wondering about the connectors near the ECM. I know that the engine wiring harness has been modified for the DFI, but am not sure about the wiring/connectors into the DFI ECM. Here are the existing connectors. Will the 730 just plug in?

Any input welcome!

88TPI406GTA

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88TPI406GTA

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88TPI406GTA

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Grumpy

A 730 is a 3 connector ecm.
From the harness splices, it's hard to tell exactly what they did.

If it was a MAF car originally, it's just a matter of sorting thru the wiring and repinning stuff.

88TPI406GTA

Thanks for the reply Grumpy. I do not have the 730 in hand yet (am buying from a list member with connectors/pigtails), so I am not exactly sure. This was originally a LO3 car (my "new" 91) which is part of the question. Was there a different inside harness for the ECM for the TBI ECM?

Grumpy

LO3 was also a 2 connector ecm.
You got some wire sorting out to do but get some diagrams, and list everything out, and you should be OK. It's kind of intimidating for some, but getting it all organized ahead of time, will pay off.

MTPFI-MAF

Hey Just wondering if you are gonna make the DFI a Paper Weight. lol Keep it in the car so you have something to put behind paper to write on.

Na Na, na na na na na, Hey hey hey Good Buy DFI

88TPI406GTA

Thanks Grumpy...I expected to be doing that anyway to clarify the wiring, but was hoping not to have to.

Actually, for what it is, the DFI system isn't half bad. However, since I have a stockish TPI 350 and want to drive it daily, it makes no sense to keep the DFI, which is really intended for much more radical setups and more of a weekend car.

I will be selling the setup coming up after I transition back to the 730.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

First picture is the I/P "Instrument Panel" connector.
I researched mine when converting to the 730.
Please recheck against your info to be certain they match.
A= BLK GROUND
B= ORG ECM CONTINUOUS POWER (MEMORY)
C= WHT/GRN SERVICE ENGINE LIGHT
D= N/A
E= WHT/BLK ALDL "B"
F= PNK/BLK ECM PWR (IGN ON) AND SOLENOID PWR
G= N/A
H= TAN/BLK TCC SOLENOID
J= N/A
K= BRN (THINK TO VSS, EST CONTROLLER)
L= N/A
M= BLK/WHT GROUND
N= ORG/BLK NEUTRAL SAFTEY SWITCH
P= PPL FROM BRAKE PEDAL SWITCH TO RELEASE TCC
THIS IS THE RETURN GROUNG WIRE FROM THE TCC ("H" ABOVE)
BRAKE SWITCH INTERRUPTS THE CIRCUIT WHEN PRESSED

The ECM will have to be mapped out and the harness you have can be reworked to match.
I gutted an Accell setup and got 80% to where I needed to be.
I have more info if you need, I just finished about a month ago so it's still fresh.
JP

88TPI406GTA

This is GREAT...

Do you happen to have a pic too? I will verify the wiring this weekend...but pics seem to help me a LOT.

Thanks!

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

I had a long response posted stating that I only had video as I removed my existing harnesses.
I tried to attach a PDF file of my final schematic and the board crashed
you can download my schematic here:
http://www.wideopenwest.com/~johnand...TESS/Monte.htm

It should work, if not send me an e-mail and I'll just send it.

Basically you need to identify as much up front as you can (even if you are not going to use it)
Draw some diagrams of where the harnesse came from and went to (some pics of the connectors as you go will save you time figuring where they came from)
Redraw the whole thing on several sheets and figure out what the configuration will look like so you know where everything "should" be going in the end.
When redrawing it, put the factory colors on your diagrams to help you follow the OEM schematics easier.
Then strip out the existing harnesses, open them up and reconnect the plugs where you can and see if they are each long enough to reuse. You probably have two in the car if you are in the same situation I was in with the DFI installed over the existing.

Go to your diagrams and change the colors to the ones you will be re-using to keep your head on straight.
DO NOT try to remember everything !
I tried a little and it bit me every time.
Anyway, that's how I proceded and it has worked out great with only a few dumb mistakes. (forgot the A/C clutch signal back to the ECM, so now it is only connected to the on/off switch)
Maybe run an extra wire or two for later additions like fog lights or LEDs, Nitrous?
Have fun,
If you need info on connectors and such let me know, Ive done a ton of research finding all of the ones I needed and there are sensor part numbers etc on the schematic I made too.
Remember that the schematic was to convert my 86 Monte SS to the 730 SD TPI setup so all of the colors and instrument wiring may be different but the engine control will be the same.

Edit: I updates the link to work again (JP)

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

OK, it's giving me fits.
You'll just have to watch my truck video to get to the file!
Anybody need a truck?
Gotta make room. LOL

goto:

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~Johnand...to 730 TPI.pdf

right click and save or open it from there.
JP

88TPI406GTA

This is really great material. I will be reviewing it coming up...I probably won't have the 730 ECM for a few weeks...and I will be swapping in the new engine in a month or so...and would like to install the 730 1st.

Could you post a doc with the connector #'s and/or any other part #s that have helped you out? Or post a link?

Thanks again...this really is very helpful for me as I can study this all up front to avoid frustration when I actually do the swap.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Most of the connectors will be of the "WeatherPak" variety for underhood use.
The ECM is "Metripack" type I think.
Delphi makes them all, but buying from them will be expensive.
Use their catalogs to find the actual part number and search the net for good deals. Alot of the aftermarket harness companies are willing to sell connectors and wire for less cause they buy in bulk (but only if you know exactly what you want, ie: don't ask for a "TPS" connector on a 91).
The high temp wire TXL, GXL is all I used and can run some serious $ for alot of it, but I think its worth the peace of mind to do it once and not melt it on the manifold. Most aftermarket harnesess are made from his type of wire, that's another reason to reuse as much of the wire that you have from the DFI setup.
Check for suppliers that have many colors available, the cheapest places only have solid colors but there were a few I found AFTER I bought mine that had lots of strip/color combinations. Its very hardto actually get all the std GM harness colors to do the job.

ECM Connectors are best found at the boneyard or see if you can get the cut pig tails with the ECM.
Then just buy the new pins for them GM #12089649 (18-22 AWG size)

WeatherPack http://www.weatherpack.com/pages/900555/index.htm

I have downloaded the full Delphi catalog (25 Mb) actually 60 Mb uncompressed. It has it all.
http://www.powerandsignal.com/IDC/Pr...MetriPack.aspx
It's the top catalog or if you have dial up, pick the individual catalogs to use.
JP

88TPI406GTA

JP86SS,

Do you have a more detailed (higher res) version of that PDF? I would like to print out a copy on 11x17 paper on the color printer at work...

If so, please email me a copy at adamstendahl@excite.com

Thanks,

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

It actually is an 11 X 17 print.
I have found it best to print on a four page setting to really be able to read it good.
I'll send you the Autocad file and the PDF in that format.

88TPI406GTA

Sweet....my email account can handle larger files too...

Thanks!

Adam

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

No problem, You've got mail !

88TPI406GTA

UPDATE:

OK, so it is now February of 2005 and I am working on this...but I have an issue with the IP Connector wiring.

So it turns out that in doing a continuity test between the positive bat cable (at the bat) and the IP connector, pins B, F, M & R all appear to have full time power.

Is this supposed to be like this? Remember that this car was originally a 91 TBI 305 car that was converted to a TPI 350 setup with a DFI harness...so that is why I am not sure what is what with the IP connector...

Any info on the IP connector would be greatly appreciated...including whether it is the same/different wiring between a MAF, SD or TBI ecm...

TIA,

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

From up above
These were from my monte but the B & F terminals will be hot, M & R you will need to trace from your car schematic.
I pulled lots of hair out finding out where mine went to. Thre is still one wire I'm not sure about even now.
The best bet is to start with an OEM schematic and go backwards. Then look at every possible motro combination that was offered and compare the pinouts that you can find.
Most of them "should" match up by color even with the DFI in there.
I wouldn't think the DFI harness was incorporated too much into that connector.
Hope it's going well for you.

11sORbust

FYI, you don't need to buy new pins. Just release the old ones out of the weatherpack connector and slip em in the replacement connector......

88TPI406GTA

UPDATE:

I am close to getting the car running...but am getting some wierd results on the ALDL and I/P connector pinouts. 91 Camaro, originally TBI 305.

Here are the results of my continuity and voltage tests on the ALDL and I/P connectors:

ALDL

A - Ground - Looks good

B- connects to pin M of the I/P connector and measures +12 volts battery

C- pins out to pin A of I/P connector

D- not used

E- pins out to pin J of I/P connector

F- pins out to pin H of I/P connector

G, H, J - not used

K- purple wire that doesn't pin out to I/P connector

L - not used

M - tan wire, doesn't pin out to I/P connector


on the I/P connector: pins C & G have +12 volt switched

on the ALDL connector: pins K & M have +5 volt power


This is all without the ECM connected.


I have looked at all the wiring diagrams that I could find including DIYEFI.org and the JP86SS 11x17 pdf...and I am stumped.

Any input would be welcome as to where to look for the wiring as I still need to wire in the:

-speedo signal
-serial data output from ECM
-diag output from ECM
-SES light

TIA.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Looks like my links are down again

The speedo signal can come from a signal generator on the trans or if you have a cable driven speedo there "may" be a buffer box under the dash that could work. 730 needs 4000 pulses per mile (is 4 pulse per rev out of the trans on the cable)
Not sure what you have available to work with.
See "jagsthatrun.com"
Thats where I got mine from and it worked great.

Serial data and diagnostic could be jumped into the ALDL connector directly from the ECM connectors if you can't get them otherwise figured out. Pin E or M on the ALDL should be the serial out from the ECM. I don't have my picture here so you'll need to check which one. Some ALDL cable have E & M jumped together so don't leave anything on the other unused pin. Save some time and just get them there. I did re-run a new set to mine when I did it. I ended up with one wire in the old harness that I still don't know where it goes (and I looked hard to find out too)

The SES can be a little bit of a problem in that your car may have the "light driver module" installed.
This grounded the ECM output to make the light turn on. The 730 directly drives the light so the action is reversed.
What I did was removed the board from the module holder and jumpered a wire to the ALDL connector and joined with the existing wire that goes to the light. I couldn't get to the back of the dash connector and really wasn't worth the effort to do it that way anyway. Worked good, just remember to remove the board or smoke may occur.
Its probably located above the glovebox door in the dash. Taped to the underside of the dash in that area.

It appears that you need to obtain a schematic of a car that was for TBI to figure out some of those connections that exist. The colors are common but where you say theyu are going does not make sense with what I've got.

V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

That's what I'm working on right now in my '89 GMC Safari TPI conversion.

If your car has a DRAC in the dash, which I'm pretty sure it does, you can take the signal from C13 of the DRAC module and run it to pin C6 of the 730.

88TPI406GTA

UPDATE: OK...so I can hook the laptop up to the ECM and everything appears to be ok.

Problem: I can't crank the starter. There is 12.6 volts from the battery (with a new Optima) and a new LT1 mini starter.

There is no voltage at the ignition switch wire when the key is turned to the start position. I have disabled the VATS in the ECM and the key I am using is the VATS key for this car.

Since this car was originally a T-5 car, I looked for the neutral safety switch on the clutch pedal and can't find one...the previous owner removed it.

The damn thing cranked with the DFI setup...which leaves a couple of possibilities:

1. The ignition switch went south during the last 6 months of sitting.

2. The wiring for the neutral safety switch came un-bypassed somehow...but I can't seem to find what it would look like.

3. It is a VATS problem...but the Security light doesn't come on at all when in the run position or crank position. It doesn't come on initially when I turn the key from off to run (like the rest of the lights do) but then turns off after a few seconds.

I am so close to driving this car, it is killing me....Any suggestions?

TIA

88TPI406GTA

I should also mention that I replaced the positive and negative battery cables and there is no corrosion on the wires at all.

What about the 3 amp crank circuit? How would it be involved with cranking the engine?

TIA...

88TPI406GTA

UPDATE: After finding a decent VATS diagram, I found the starter enable relay under the drivers kick panel and found that the starter enable relay was working.

I searched some more and found a 6 wire plug in the console area...of which 2 of them were the safety switch wires. After jumping these 2 wires (and then permanently soldering them later)...I got the car to crank.

However, the car won't start. I had disabled the VATS in the chip by unchecking it in the ECM switch table.

I checked the injector wiring and it all checks out. I have +12 volts on the pink wires on both injector banks when the ignition switch is ON. The driver wires pin out properly and the ECM ground pins all check out.

I didn't hook up a wire from the VATS module to the ECM because I disabled the VATS in the ECM.

Any suggestions as to why the ECM wouldn't fire the injectors?

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

You need to have distributor pulses to get the fuel pump to turn on and also to fire the injectors. The fuel pump should run for about two seconds each time there is a pulse.
That would be the next thing to check.
A noid light would indicate if they are at least firing, from there you would need to check the fuel pump pressure at the rail.

88TPI406GTA

UPDATE: I checked the distributor wiring...and the fuel pump was coming on.

I was not getting the injectors to fire...I used a multimeter to see if the ECM driver would complete the circuit.

After playing around with it...I looked over the wiring diagrams for the ECM...and found that I hadn't made a pin for the Park/Neutral switch input to the ECM. I didn't think it would be an issue through the ECM, but was wrong.

As soon as I installed and grounded that pin, the injectors fired and the car runs

The bizarre thing is that the .bin is for a manual trans and I couldn't find anything in my extensive searching regarding the need to have this pin for the '730.

Too wierd...

However, I took the car on a 10 mile drive...it won't go into closed loop, so I have to check the O2 sensor wiring. The previous owner wired in a heated O2 sensor.

Do I need to have an O2 ground wire come back to the ECM as well?

The bizarre thing is that with the DFI, the car wouldn't idle at all while with the '730, I have a stock bin (just changed the injector constant for the LS1 injectors) and it drives OK...for being in open loop all the time.

More work to do tomorrow

Grumpy

If you're running a 3-4 wire sensor, then yes, I'd run a dedicated ground for the O2, and ground it, in a very positive manner, ie not shared with anything else.

I dunno what you're seeing with the injector driving problem. I'd suggest carefully double and triple checking your grounds. And then check them again. Poor grounds can cause all sorts of odd problems.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

It's ALIVE

Check out the coolant sensor as well.
Hook up your datalogger and check that all the sensors are reading where they should aproxamately and that they move and don't stay static.
Just wondering, What bin are you running?

88TPI406GTA

Grumpy:
Do you mean run a ground wire from the O2 to the ECM? (pin E15) Because I don't have a pin at E15 right now...there is currently a 3 wire O2 sensor in place, but I haven't verified the power and grounds, just the O2 signal. Even with headers, I figured that in this heat (hot MN summer), that the O2 sensor would heat up enough to go into closed loop. I will check the wiring later today, when it cools off...

As for the injector issue...the car would NOT start, unless I grounded pin D16 (park/neutral switch) on the ECM. I verified that all the other grounds on the ECM were good (A12, D1, D6 & D7). I had ASSumed that the ECM didn't need to know the park/neutral switch position with a manual .bin file.


JP86SS:

I am using Moates software right now to verify the basic sensors, including TPS, MAP, MAT, CTS and IAC. I also used my Actron sensor testor and a vacuum pump to test the MAP sensor.

As for the bin, I modded the AXCN bin with just the injector constant and cylinder volume to get the car to run. I think I need a different bin though. The idle is smooth, but the car will stall out if left idling. I think this is due to the open loop operation.

What bin should I be using? I did an extensive search and am not sure...

The engine is an LO5 with a stock TPI on it. It has an SLP cold Air kit and headers (with a cat back).

I was thinking of taking a fresh AXYC and copying over the 350 tables for spark and fuel. Or I should try the AUJP bin with some tweaks for a stick?

Currently, the car idles smoothly, but when I give it gas, I do get some black smoke out of the back of the car. I have new LS1 injectors and an APFR set at 44 psi. I set the injector constant to 28 and if I wasn't breaking in my CF DF clutch, I would try some WOT runs...

Any bin suggestions/hints would be great!

Thanks...