antman89iroc

Currently running 165 MAF ecm and was about to go with the EBL system when I started looking into the 411 swap. Of course the ODB system is a bit more involved than the EBL swap but I'm wondering if it would be worth the extra time and cost.

If anyone has any input about swapping from MAF to either one of these systems I would appreciate the input.

peterc005

Interested in the same question.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

If you arent complicating the motor build, it seems much more cost effective to stay factory style ecm and wiring and run the ebl.

I did the maf to map conversion and ran 730 just fine. Ebl seems better than $8D and the like as i believe it has more features like boost capability. 730 needs code $59.

If staying simple motor build, seems hard to beat ebl for the upfront cost and work to swap.
Obd2 is complex but offers more tuning options since there are many lsx obd2 tuners around. You will need ls1 harness to modify to integrate into the stock harness to keep your dash and ignition systems working. Then you need efi connections crank sensor/24x ring, a balancer thats thin enough to clear the sensor like ati superdampner 1.25" shell, the timing cover which can be their billet piece with cam sensor and ring built in or a stock vortec gm cover which is 20-50$. If you do that you need the dizzy cam sensor kit.

Gotta mount coil packs to some location like valvecovers either by custom brackets from efi connection or your own. The initial costs of all the hardware is likely over 500$ right now and not including wiring supplies to integrate harnesses.

Ls1 harness 100$-$150
Coil packs 100$
Efi connection hardware 200-400$ depending

Now you still need to tune it. Hptuners 650$

Its cheaper than most aftermarket efi systems but more expensive than stock electronics. Capability i would say is greater but i am not sure on ebl as i havent used it. I just know what they can do with 4th gens and there are alot of good controls in that tune.

I like my obd2 flash based tuning, beats chip burns esp when your chip burners randomly fail. My setup is pretty complex tho, big heads cam cubes and ton of boost. Lots goin on

antman89iroc

Thanks Orr that's the type of input i needed. Rob's ebl is flash tune so the ecm gets to go back in place yea now i can hear my right front speaker again lol. I have made some customized harnesses before so i know how that can be. I just saw that you and others have gone with the late ecm and some have raved about it. I went to my local dyno tuner and they don't even tune the old systems although they will rent the dyno. I think ebl should pick up a lot of the features I'm looking for without being such a huge project. Odb is tempting but I think I will keep it simple for now. If I ever pull the motor in the future i may take the next step.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I like obd2 but dont like the software cost to tune them. However doin the conversion yourself if price out components right it is cheaper than aftermarket ecms and offers imo more driveability tuning. Aftermarket stuff can get better on wot stuff to some degree and can offer more control features like boost control, nitrous control, log inputs for wideband, fuel pressure, egt's, and many more. But for most setups thats not necessary and obd2 411 is more than capable

Also alot can be done on stock 90's tech as well and ebl is a great advancement over that stuff. I am considering it for my 91 turbo build coming this winter

antman89iroc

Yeah even though I built a large ci motor it isn't exotic. Ebl is probably the best option. I will report back after the swap and let you know.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah by exotic or complicated, i mean some radical race motor or something that turns higher than 7k rpm as i believe stock tables usually cover to 6400-7000 rpms and not much over

antman89iroc

EBL ordered. Looking forward to this new system. Not only for the sd experience but the integrated nitrous control and wide band input as well as a shift light. Dumping the MAF sensor allows me to upgrade the air filter ducting too. Hope to have it in and running in the next week or so. Will let you know how it goes.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Welcome aboard...

antman89iroc

Is this the EBL express lol.
Ok now that I have purchased a system tell me what to expect or any tuning tips. How does it compare to the factory ecm?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Select the provided bin based on your cubic inch displacement, change your injector flow rate to match any difference in injectors if there are any in terms of size, adjust your base and initial timing to where your cam wants it to be in Tuner Pro. Adjust your fan temp settings when you want them to go on and off. Once done, do some VE Learns and take it out on the highway. Keep saving (flashing) tune after tune until it is dialed in, won't take too long at all. You could keep tuning to dial in your tune after this point in terms of enrichment and spark advance, but your engine will run better than it ever has. Don't want to clog your thread with videos, but I have a few videos showing the EBL in action, and my cam is huge for a 305...

Edit: Here you go...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...ml#post5832863

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Leaning this way for my 305 although i do have another lsx harness here

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Go with the EBL-P4 for that turbo 305 of yours, and I say this because I already know what RBob is cooking up, and what is coming. Trust me on this Justin...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Sounds good! Starting on mine here soon. Def a winter project

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Did you at least hear about the CnP coil pack setup for the Grand National guys for the sister version of the EBL-P4 called the SFI-6 yet? Bob has been very busy, good things are coming...

antman89iroc

Good info SL thanks. Would you direct me to your video or post a link? Oh and thanks guys for teasing me about what's coming in the future after i just purchased mine lol. Jk.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Cnp would be awesome but not necessary for what i am doing

antman89iroc

CnP?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Coil near plug. Ls1 style

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

We're gonna party like it's 1985

-- Joe

antman89iroc

EBL installed and tuning. Not a big deal going from maf. Hardest part was finding the correct map sensor plug lol. Man this is a great system. More than i expected. The VE learn tool is awesome but there is so much more. Transparent things like how the idle is controlled via spark advance than just iac. Expanded spark and VE tables. I could go on and on. The flashing process is very similar to the chip burning process but can be done on the fly. I thought the mileage tool was neat when saw it but it's very useful. Almost like bsfc on the dyno. I even used the digital odometer to verify my Speedo against mile markers. I've only scratched the surface. I am very impressed. Good job no great job Bob. Highly recommend EBL Flash and if P4 has more capability watch out!

banksGTA

iTrader: (3)

I'm jus curious how everything with the EBL is going? Thanks

antman89iroc

Very well. I have only programmed with the stock computer before, but the EBL is much better IMO. Especially, if someone was just starting out it would keep them from having to buy all the adaptors, cords, burners and chips to modify the stock tune. The only drawback there would be no access to the "stock" tune although Bob supplies generic stock tunes. Plus EBL has features a stock computer doesn't like built in WB compatibility, shift light, nitrous and boost control. It gives me feedback not available before and my car is running better than before. I look forward to going back to the strip this spring to quantify the difference. I started with a MAF system so I got rid of the MAF sensor and have upgraded my air intake. While indirectly related to the EBL it is a benefit. Not to forget I'm still tuning but my ECM is back up in the dash!

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Another satisfied EBL P4 Flash customer

antman89iroc

Yes, well true but I'm using the standard Flash version, not P4.