PolishRS

Hey guys and gals! I'm Paul and this is my first post here, I've been more of an observer for some time now, but I have a "problem" with my TBI Camaro and I'm seeking for help or suggestions. The thing is once the radiator e-fan turns on when the car reaches 220(on the gauge, don't know how high it actually is) it stays on for the rest of the drive, turns off only when I turn off the engine. But the temp also never drops below 220 - not while idling nor while driving on the freeway. I've replaced the temp sensor next to the intake manifold, I havent touched the switch on the pass. side head (shipping costs have sky rocketed and I'm waiting), but if the fan turns on I guess the switch is okay. About the 220 temp - isn't it a bit high? I suspect a clogged radiator, because once I turn off the car when it reaches this temp 1/3 of the radiator is hot and the rest is cold(or the other way around, but I think it should be hot or cold as a whole?). My AC doesn't work, the compressor is there but the lines are not connected(if it has anything to do with cooling). I see the car once every two weeks or so - because of that I think more about it's problems rather than doing something about them. I'm just curious what you guys think Have a great day!

Komet

Your car is running on the very hot side of acceptable, and the fan is never turning off because the engine isn't cooling down. Do you have the plastic lower airdam attached? Without it, air isn't going to flow into your radiator correctly. What color is the coolant, when is the last time the system was flushed?

Are the brakes sticking, or is the engine in a poor state of tune? All could be factors in chasing down high temps.

1989karr

It does sound like you got a clogged radiator.. .if its old Id just replace it. and flush out the system. As Komet said, your car is just running hot and the fan is just keeping it at a constant temp v actually cooling it down.

Eventually that fan motor is going to burn out!

PolishRS

Thanks guys for the answers. That's the thing, the car is at a very poor side of tune, I bought it in a very bad condition, fought the rust issues well with my dad. The car definitely runs rich, it smells like unburnt fuel from the pipes. I changed the plugs and wires, it still does that. I'm waiting for my friend to make me an obd1 connector for my car so I can read the sensors data and see what is actually wrong with the car. I'm not on love with the TBI, I'm planning on swapping it with an LS1, but man o man, how expensive are they here in Poland... Oh yeah, I have my air dam attached and surprisingly(roads in Poland are sometimes baaad) in a good condition.
the coolant used is the blue one, although it had the pink one in it when I bought it and a lot of some kind of dirt was in the reservoir. I bet there's even more in the radiator. A new radiator is a bit too much to ask for in Poland, I guess I'll have to flush this one really good.

3rdgenzroc

You can use a paper clip (or a wire) to get your codes, no need to make a connector. Do a search for using that to get detailed instructions and your codes, simple and free. Definitely get your whole system flushed out, motor and all. Make sure to drain the engine completely by removing the plugs. You can search for the best practices to accomplish that also. If you find your radiator is too plugged up to service, maybe attempt to find a used one comparable to the one you have (doesn't have to be a perfect match, just something that you can get in there), you want to get that cooling under control first, then you can diagnose your next issues to work through.

PolishRS

Hey, thanks for the answer. I already did the paper clip thing and got the code 21 or 22 (TPS low or high, can't remember now), but from what I read on the forums it could be a lot of different things when this code shows up. As you said, I will firstly get the cooling right, then I'll think about the rest.

72buickgs

change thermostat to 195*, flush cooling system system. Temp sending switch faulty?

PolishRS

Yeah first I'm gonna flush the system good, then take out the thermostat and check it with hot water. If it's bad then I'll change it (probably gonna drive some time with no thermo because shipping time). The switch is okay I guess, because it does make the fan spin.

1989karr

If the radiator is clogged, which it seems.. id leave the thermostat out and run some flush through the system.


If you got the water pump with a port, attach a barbed fitting and flush it from there... it really helps!


I did that to my TBI truck// you wont believe the crud that came out

PolishRS

I'm sorry, could you please tell me what do you mean by "flush it from there"? I guess I do have a port, there's a plug somewhere around the water pump. Am I supposed to flush it with a water hose through the port or what? Thanks very much

Komet

Yeah, however you get water circulating is good. I pulled my radiator completely out so I could shake all the rocks and corpses out. It was gross. Water didn't run clear until the 5th shake.

Just make sure you get rid of all the hose water when you're done. Only distilled water should go in long-term.

1989karr

Some...mostly aftermarket....water pumps have a plug on the back of the water pump on the top........ its got a plug that the screw part is i believe 5/8 npt?? I can;t recall actual size though........its for models that require a heater fitting.
I removed the thermostat for full flow, disconnected the heater hose that comes from the back of the manifold and I used one of those radiator flush kits to attach a garden hose and some heater hose to a 5/8 barbed to (i think ) 5/8 NPT fitting (from home depot) and and FLUSHED away....

The amount of crap that came out from the back of the motor was AMAZING... the water was pure brown... it filled a 5 gallon bucket so many time I lost count.... Im guessing someone put stop leak or something in the mottor at some point and al lthat gunk was stuck because I owned the truck for several years and had done MANY coolant flushes before and the water was always clean...ish...I never suspected there was so much gunk in the motor...

72buickgs

U need a thermostat because the engine requires temps in the rage of 195+ to work properly & for your fan if it requires a certain temp to run. I wonder if the temp sensor is defective or even the temp gauge is bad. If u had a laser temp reader, u could check the temp at the thermostat housing.

PolishRS

Hey guys, it's me again. I flushed the system with no thermostat well I suppose, then filled it with proper coolant, tried it with no stat and it did well, the temp went up to about 220, the whole surface of the radiator was nicely hot. Then the fan went on, worked for a while, lowered the temp, turned off. Okay, so I checked the old stat with hot water from a kettle, it didn't open. I guessed well, it's bad. So i got a new one, checked that one too. Dang it, doesn't open either. But I checked both with water boiling on fire. Both stats worked well. I put the new one in the car and now it does the same stuff as before, the radiator is cold and the fan turns on and never goes off. I feel air in the upper radiator hose, the stat seems to not let water go into the radiator. Is it some kind of air pocket where the stat sits? Or what the hell? thanks in advance

1989karr

What brand of t stat did you get and what temp?

Did you burp the system? Try let it cool overnight and then go see if you need to add more

Komet

You can use an infrared thermometer to get a better idea of what the thermostat is doing on the car. The interior gauge is useful for watching trends but isn't necessarily accurate enough for diagnosis.

PolishRS

Hey guys! So I got another new thermostat after reading a lot of cases about new thermostats being junk. It's a wahler 195 stat. "Same sh.t, different stat" I'm starting to think that maybe the sensors are bad, but when I warm the car up without the thermostat everything works like a charm. The only weird thing about the new stat is the lack of a venting hole. But when I took the old one out I tried not to spill any coolant out of the block, so when I put the new one in it was nicely surrounded by coolant, so air in the system should not be an issue. Could it be a bad water pump? How do you burp the system?
EDITI did all that could be done about venting the system - putting the front on jackstands, pouring as much as can be poured into the upper radiator hose, opened the radiator cap and ran the car. The stat didn't open. Then I let it sit for some time, checked the coolant level and it didn't go down, the radiator is full. I don't know what the hell this car wants me to do.

1989karr

Does the upper hose get hot? Can you feel the t stat open and release the hot water?
I never heard of that brand. I usually go with ac delco... but you can dril a small hole in it.



I use one of those radiator funnels to burp the system. it allows you to add water as the motor heats up / t stat opens. If not, i add coolant, let it settle for a bit, then add more, repeat for a while. Sometimes if i have time, i let it sit overnight... and the air works its way out... but with the funnel i no longer do that.


You can check the waterpump flow from inside the radiator with the level down a bit. The heater hose pumps into the radiator right under the radiator cap. If you have the level below this hose inlet, and start the car, the coolant shoukld be coming out fast like a free flowing garden hose... not the most accurate way to test water pump peformance, but tis something,

did you remove and reverse flush the radiator?

yankeecarman

iTrader: (9)

Like he said above I would drill a 1/8 inch hole in the thermostat.

Bow_Tied

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to hear of your trouble. Question for you, and I don't mean to sound rude, but which way did you install the thermostat? I have heard of putting it in upside down causing similar issues.

One way I burp the air from the rad is to put the rad cap on half way (loose) and drive around slowly after the engine is at operating temperature. It might slop some coolant from the rad but no big deal.

The wrong fuel mixture or engine timing can make the engine run hotter than it should. As can a plugged exhaust.

PolishRS

I've read that you put the stat with the spring side towards the block, so I did te same as it makes sense because the thermoactive element of the stat is in constant contact with the fluid
I will try drilling a small vent hole in the stat. This car is super weird. I bought it while it was on the worse side of bad condition-wise, although I'm working on it so that it becomes the best 3rd gen in Poland. That is if the engine doesn't blow up from overheating
EDIT
I got myself an infrared thermometer, wouldn't have guessed they're not that expensive. But I have a problem with getting an accurate measurement. What is the infrared radiation rate of the thermostat housing? I guess it's some sort of alloy, but I have no idea what to put into the thermometer. The manual says aluminium has a rate of 0.2-0.4, but when I try it like that it says it's 250 F. There's no way it's that hot.
EDIT2I also drilled a small venting hole in the new thermostat, but it still seems to not open. The hose and the radiator get hot, but it's probably only from the coolany flowing through the hole. The fan kicks on at about 220 and the temperature sits there. When it's cold outside it drops down to where the fan turns off, but today was a hot day and the fan didn't turn off when I tried it.

PolishRS

SOLVED! Friggin hell, it was a bad thermostat all the time. Two new thermostats, not the cheapest ones, but the third one works, a tractor thermostat - works like a charm.
EDITBut the shift cable snapped during a test drive
Man I love this car