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Power steering pump is supposed to be in tomorrow morning. I should be able to get the radiator in and running tomorrow. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
New power steering pump on today. Tires on the ground I can turn the wheel full left/right easily. I couldn't before. I haven't had it on the road yet because no radiator yet. Turned the wheel a 1/4 turn while moving forward in pole barn and leg go and it starts to return to center. It looks like that was the problem.
Supposed to get the top radiator support late this afternoon. Probably install radiator tomorrow.
New power steering pump on today. Tires on the ground I can turn the wheel full left/right easily. I couldn't before. I haven't had it on the road yet because no radiator yet. Turned the wheel a 1/4 turn while moving forward in pole barn and leg go and it starts to return to center. It looks like that was the problem.
Supposed to get the top radiator support late this afternoon. Probably install radiator tomorrow.
How are you going to mount the LS fans?
there's a few methods but Ive never see anyone use the same method twice yet
It looks like it will sit on the lip at the bottom and then I will make a bracket that bolts on at the top. I'll have to get the radiator in and see how it looks. I'll come up with something.
Yours looks real nice. My radiator doesn't have those holes.
I put power to the old fans and the LS fans. The LS fans blow a LOT more than the other ones. But you already knew that.
thx!
You don't need to bolt it direct to the radiator since you don;t have those holes.
the only thing is the area with the tab sticking out on the shroud IS a bit thin... I wish the tab sat more forward... buuutt...what you gonan do right? lol but it should be ok.
You can add some kind of extra support too if needed.
I got the radiator in and running. I had to fit it. I got the fans fitted. Had to make a bracket on the bottom to get it closer to the radiator. It was an 1/8" from moving parts. Too close for me. I wish I would have went with different fans. I need to pick up some metal flat strap to support the fans at the top, tomorrow.
I got the radiator in and running. I had to fit it. I got the fans fitted. Had to make a bracket on the bottom to get it closer to the radiator. It was an 1/8" from moving parts. Too close for me. I wish I would have went with different fans. I need to pick up some metal flat strap to support the fans at the top, tomorrow.
the blades are only 1/8 away? they should be farther because the shroud itself sits against the rad. and the fans are slightly farther back within the shroud
The Original TPI blades sit really close to the radiator as well too.
Thats odd... maybe your radiator is much thicker than stock?
My LS fan, even the LT1 fans... sits right in the channel / groove on the lower radiator ... i guess channel and locks in-between that and the radiator.
Theres quite a bit of clearance, and because it fits in there no mods were made to instal lit.
Maybe thats some kind of a bigger aftermarket radiatoer you got?
That's too close, You might have to rework how they sit or maybe you have a huge radiator or something that's super thick.... there are some brackets in your first pic on the radiator bottom that look a little odd / oput of place. Im wonderign if this is the wrong radiator?
Are the fans sitting in the channel on the lower area where the radiator sits? It looks like tis sitting too high as well.
This is from your first pic......the fan would be where I put the yellowish mark:nd would sit up against the radiator.
The shroud was sitting on the lip where the rad. sits. There are three tabs on the shroud, one sits on the rad. side of lip, two sit on the engine side of lip. I moved the shroud closer to the rad. and made a bracket so the shroud can't move closer to the rad. and rub. I looked under the car to make sure the tabs were in the correct locations. Putting the shroud in place is a fight getting past the tensioner pulley & a/c pulley.
The shroud was sitting on the lip where the rad. sits. There are three tabs on the shroud, one sits on the rad. side of lip, two sit on the engine side of lip. I moved the shroud closer to the rad. and made a bracket so the shroud can't move closer to the rad. and rub. I looked under the car to make sure the tabs were in the correct locations. Putting the shroud in place is a fight getting past the tensioner pulley & a/c pulley.
Hold on a sec,, leme try find a pic,
You'd need to cut some tabs on the shroud because those get in the way and are used for the fourth gen rad
You can have them flush against the radiator note how its right against the rad... the top will line up as well.
I just noticed your fans are upside down........ Its POSSIBLE to mount it that way but it is much more difficult and take a LOT more work as the top of the shroud is much thicker than the bottom part. Thats possibly why its so close to the motor... the thicker area is not letting the shroud slide into the channel....
The driver side should have the fan on the "bottom" and the passenger side should be on the top. (note the orientation in the photo). Electrical connections would be facing downward on the bottom.
The three tabs on the top of the shroud should be sticking up.
You wil lalso need to cut off the 4 tabs on the side of the shroud...those are not necessary as they hold the shroud to a 4th gen radiator and are not necessary. Cutting those would give more maneuverability of the shroud
I cut the side tabs off. I will turn it around and try it tomorrow. It figures I was doing it backwards. Duh.
lol no worries.. its all basically fabrication / learning.
You can trim the shroud too if needed.
I cut the bottom fan guard s I can have easier access to the electrical connector... its stupid how it was designed.
I just remembered...i sanded down the "rib" on the bottom of driver side fan to let it sit a little better and line up more... not necessary but helps a bit.
I had to do some trimming but the fans fit a lot better when you put it in right. I can get my hand between the fan motors and the other pulleys.
I wired the primary fan (left) to the black/red strip wires ECM controlled. I started the engine and both fans stayed off until the temp at the gauge got to about 160. The mark in between the 100 & 220. From then on the left fan stayed on. The temp got up to 195 (new thermostat) you could see the temp gauge go down a little. It would rise and fall as it should. I ran the a/c it seems to work right but that fan never did come on. Thoughts?
I had the service engine light come on in the past. Code 34, MAP sensor voltage low. I disconnected the battery to clear. It did not come on today. But I do have the "INFL REST" light is on? Disconnecting the battery did not make it go away. What is it?
Did you leave that radiator top mount / shroud whole? I cut mine so the fans would clear better and sit against the radiator. flush so it pulls air through the radiator. Leaves more room between the fan and motor too.The more air gap you have the less efficient the cooling is since wir is pulled around the gap. That;s why the TPI fans sit so close since they have no shroud.
I wired the primary fan (left) to the black/red strip wires ECM controlled. I started the engine and both fans stayed off until the temp at the gauge got to about 160. The mark in between the 100 & 220. From then on the left fan stayed on. The temp got up to 195 (new thermostat) you could see the temp gauge go down a little. It would rise and fall as it should. I ran the a/c it seems to work right but that fan never did come on. Thoughts?
1. the gauge itself or the sensor in the driver head for the gauge could be off.... I don;t think any stock fan comes on at 160. but gauges are not that accurate.
2. The ECM could have been reprogrammed to turn the fan on at 160.
3. So neither of the fans came on when you turn the ac on?
I had the service engine light come on in the past. Code 34, MAP sensor voltage low. I disconnected the battery to clear. It did not come on today. But I do have the "INFL REST" light is on? Disconnecting the battery did not make it go away. What is it?
That light is for the air bag system. Does the car still have the steering wheel with the air bag?
The primary fan never shut off once it came on. Turning the a/c on did not affect it. It stayed on. Just the a/c fan did not come on at all.
How long did you run it? Even if they are LS fans, I personally feel one fan will take a while to cool the radiator down. When I ad the TPI fans, it took FOREVER for one fan to bring the temp down...fan never stopped running at idle... If you had the car moving, you can drive around and see if air flow etc.. would help.... i suspect if you were driving there would be better air flow and the fan would turn off after a drive. Do you have the air dam installed?
Try run the ac when the car is cold and fan off....and see if at least the one fan comes on before the engine heats up.
The air bag is not hooked up. Wires missing. They had an aftermarket steering wheel on it.
This is probably why the air bag light is on. Its detected the air bag is gone when it runs its diagnostic checks.
I ran it for about 30 minutes.
Air dam is installed. I live on a gravel road and it's way to muddy to take it out of the pole barn. lol.
Is it worth it for me to buy what I need to reprogram the ECM or is it cheaper to take it to someone and have them do it?
How do I shut the INFL REST light off. Remove the bulb? Can you reprogram the ECM so it doesn't come on?
I ran it for about 30 minutes.
Air dam is installed. I live on a gravel road and it's way to muddy to take it out of the pole barn. lol.
Is it worth it for me to buy what I need to reprogram the ECM or is it cheaper to take it to someone and have them do it?
How do I shut the INFL REST light off. Remove the bulb? Can you reprogram the ECM so it doesn't come on?
Im not familiar with ECM programming.. .but there are places that will tune a PROM.. .so you send your PROM to them, they reprogram it and they can adjust the settings liek the fan or delete EGR etc... But people usually want the fan to come on sooner... 160 seems kinda low though lol
I think TPI parts.net was the only one I saw that sends a chip adapter that goes in between the PROM and ECM so you dont mess with the ECM settings. I never dealt with them before though.
As far as the air bag.. .err.... well,... hopefulyl its not illegal to run without an air bag?? Over here, if the car came with the air bag from the factory...., you MUST have it or else you wil lfail safety inspection.!
No inspection here.
Sounds like someone went through a lot of trouble to set the fan on so low. If that's what's wrong. What temp did the fan come on from the factory? Can a dealer adjust those things?
No inspection here.
Sounds like someone went through a lot of trouble to set the fan on so low. If that's what's wrong. What temp did the fan come on from the factory? Can a dealer adjust those things?
Oh you are lucky there is no inspection there lol but you'll need to knwo (which you should lol) that the air bag ins not installed so its less safe etc etc etc
Its possible. its pretty easy though.. .drop the ECM, pull out the PROM, send it off to get reprorammed... or if they had a spare, just get it reprogrammed and re install it.
The computer fan originally came on at I believe at 225 or so.
As far as the second fan,......... if the one fan is constantly on, it may never or will hardly reach the temp to activate.
You knw that the ecm is controlling the opne fan though at least......For the AC you can try unplug the ac pressure switch in the hard line. the fan should come on then.
I have the ECM hanging down. What is the PROM? Sorry. As you can tell I know nothing about the computer stuff.
I dont know a lot either lol but I know enough i think
Disconnect the battery for sure when you fool around with it. There is like a little metal cover that is screwed down on the ECM.... Under it is a blue chip / processor.... that is the prom.
I will try the things you suggested previously and see what I can find out about the reprogramming. I'll try a few cold starts until warmed up and see if it always does the same each time.
Id try sort out / diagnose before doing the ecm thing.
The ecm thing wil ljust change the temps... it COULD be stock but maybe the gauge or sender are not reading correctly? its cheap so id change the sender.
Ok, since it has nothing to do with the ECM or the fan I am going to leave that one there for now.
When doing these tests the ambient air temp is about 40 degrees in the pole barn. This is Michigan. I started it again this morning. Once it started I turned on the a/c. In a minute or less the primary fan came on. I disconnected the a/c pressure switch in the hard line between the condenser & evaporator and the secondary fan did not come on. I plugged it back in. I turned off the a/c and the primary fan stayed on, I let it run for a minute. I shut the engine off and restarted it and the primary fan did not come on until the temp reached approx. 160 ( the mark in between 100 & 220).
What is causing the primary fan to come on way before the engine is at operating temp? Has the ECM been reprogrammed or faulty? I can get a used one off ebay for $100. If that's not it I can resale it and get my money back. Thoughts?
Ok, since it has nothing to do with the ECM or the fan I am going to leave that one there for now.
If its cheap, id just change it out in case its giving a bad gauge reading. Ive had faulty sensors give inaccurate readings before for my GMs it seems that the camaro gauges aren't that accurate from what Ive read here.
When doing these tests the ambient air temp is about 40 degrees in the pole barn. This is Michigan. I started it again this morning. Once it started I turned on the a/c. In a minute or less the primary fan came on. I disconnected the a/c pressure switch in the hard line between the condenser & evaporator and the secondary fan did not come on. I plugged it back in. I turned off the a/c and the primary fan stayed on, I let it run for a minute. I shut the engine off and restarted it and the primary fan did not come on until the temp reached approx. 160 ( the mark in between 100 & 220).
Try do the ac fan test again without unpluigging the a/c pressure switch....... the fan should come on and turn off by itself when you turn the ac off..... but it will stay on a while after the ac is turned off tough...like a coupel mionutes or so. Mine takes a bit to turn off (mines an 87) . i THINK the fan wil lstay on once the pressure switch is unplugged manually. So that might be why it never turned off... Judging by the info on TGO though, the secondary fan should also come on when the ac is on.
What is causing the primary fan to come on way before the engine is at operating temp? Has the ECM been reprogrammed or faulty? I can get a used one off ebay for $100. If that's not it I can resale it and get my money back. Thoughts?
I'm kinda going with the gauge or the sender in the driver head is inaccurate. So the car is running hotter than the gauge indicates. do you have any way to test the temperature of the motor like a heat gun or something? That or the new sensor you installed in the front of the manifold for the ECM is faulty and telling the ecm the coolant is hotter than it is so the fan is coming on early.
For the ECM , only the PROM is programmable I think....... but Im not sure how you can tell if the PROM has been regrogrammed or if the ECM is faulty... Try take a peek at what PROM you got in there if its the stock one....... its possible you got a different PROM... I think there was a JET PROM or soemthing that is black and was popular back in the day or at least had some kind of labeling on it from what i recall.
I'll check things out again tomorrow.
The gauge appears accurate. It stays around the 195 mark with a new thermostat. The only fan that comes on is the primary. I have never been able to get the secondary (a/c) fan to come on. Not since I've owned the car.
I don't have a heat gun.
When the fan first comes on there is no way the engine is at operating temp. I can hold my hand on the thermostat housing and it's just warm. The engine has to run a while after that for the thermostat to open.
I'll check things out again tomorrow.
The gauge appears accurate. It stays around the 195 mark with a new thermostat. The only fan that comes on is the primary. I have never been able to get the secondary (a/c) fan to come on. Not since I've owned the car.
I don't have a heat gun.
When the fan first comes on there is no way the engine is at operating temp. I can hold my hand on the thermostat housing and it's just warm. The engine has to run a while after that for the thermostat to open.
Well, if you can touch it then yes... its not at the correct temps lol Id try open the ecm cover just to see what PROM is in there.
I just read the tech article, and it seems yes...the secondary fan should be coming on with the ac
"The secondary fan is controlled two ways, depending on year. In 1987, an in-cylinder head thermal switch is used. This switch engages the fan when coolant temperature reaches 243° F! An A/C head pressure sensor is used in addition to the thermal switch in 1988 through 1992 which turns the fan on with the A/C."
TPI parts has an adapter but they say to use your original chip so I'll call Monday and see if they can help me. What turn on temp for the fans would you suggest? I think 225 is to high. What about come on at 195-200?
TPI parts has an adapter but they say to use your original chip so I'll call Monday and see if they can help me. What turn on temp for the fans would you suggest? I think 225 is to high. What about come on at 195-200?
i think id personally stick with stock parts and get it working properly from the factory, and from there start modifying.
04-05-2022, 11:57 AM
