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While I am putting my Camaro (83 Z28 with 87 IROC-Z 305 TPI, converted to Speed Density) back together. I thought I would share an upgrade that I am going to do. I work industrial maintenance for a forging company, we have water cooled equipment, such as induction heating coils that have numerous cooling lines on them (see picture). Because of heating / cooling cycles and vibration, we have found those like worm gear style hose clamps tend to loosen up. Once they get loose enough then there is seepage from the hoses. In our case, there is electric (480 VAC – 1200 amps) going through the induction coil and everyone knows electricity and water (coolant) do not mix well. Either that when trying to tighten them, they tend to strip out and then you have to replace the clamp.
We started to switch to T-bolt constant tension clamps instead of the worm gear hose clamps (see picture) for out larger hoses and fuel injection style clamps for our small hoses (1/4" – 3/4"”). Since I am going to replace all the cooling hoses in my Camaro, I thought I would use the t-bolt clamps for the radiator hoses. The t-bolt clamps are extremely hard to strip out and provide constant tension regardless of heating / cooling cycles. Along with those, I plan on using the fuel injection style clamps for the 5/8 and 3/4" heater hoses.
While these clamps are little more money, I think that they are worth the cost of them not coming loose.
Hose clamp examples
I bought my fuel injection style clamps from Amazon and some of the T Bolt clamps online from https://www.hoseandfittingsupply.com...lamp-p/301.htm.
I had to convert their mm range to my hoses but the prices are decent. Amazon carries some of the T Bolt clamps but on some the expected arrival date was end of March / beginning of April.
23mm- 25mm (.906-.984) fits over 5/8" heater hose (OD .960)
25mm - 27mm (.984 - 1.06) should fit over 3/4" Heater Hose (OD 1.06) snug fit.
26mm - 28mm (1.024 - 1.102) would fit better over 3/4 hose
Summit Racing and JEGS also carry the larger size for the Radiator hoses.
For the cooling system, I prefer the factory style spring type clamps.
Reason is simple: any kind of fixed-tightness clamp, no matter how "beefy" the tightening method, crushes the rubber. Worm-gear clamps are no better or worse than any other such in this situation because it's not the fault of the clamp, it's a property of the rubber. It will cold-flow, distort, and otherwise attempt to adjust itself to the force it's subjected to. Therefore ANY kind of fixed-tightness clamp will eventually no longer be tight. The spring ones on the other hand, are self-tightening.
The Spring-Type/ OEM Type Clamp does the best job at evenly distributing the force all the way around the Hose, or Radiator-Neck/ Thermostat-Housing (Ideal when using Plastic Radiator/ Components).
This Design is shown in the Image below:
Most modern designs (like the Worm-gear Design) concentrate the majority of the force in one smaller area.
Over-tightening is also an issue here... cracking the Fitting or radiator neck is often the result
(generally will never happen with the Stock Spring Designs).
they all seem nice and effective as long as the hose itself is in good shape
This is the key. When the rubber deteriorates and stiffens/cracks no amount of fancy hose clamps will keep it from leaking. I have worm gear clamps that have been in place for 20 years leak free.
Now, eventually everything wears out and I have seen at least one ignorant person blame rubber wearing out on a worm gear clamp. It is true worm gear clamps do not flex with expansion/contraction/age. This isnt generally a problem because the rubber itself expands and contracts for you. The problem with spring tension style clamps is that even though they provide roughly even life-long clamping action, as rubber dries out it often needs more clamping force than these spring tension clamps provide and the end result is the same: a leak because the rubber is worn out.
The biggest complaint I have about worm gear clamps these days is how cheap they all are made. Pretty sure China has cornered the market on this too and now it is hard to find one that wont strip out with even small amount of tightening. Metal is too thin. I do like the fuel line and bolt clamp style which seem sturdier.
This is the key. When the rubber deteriorates and stiffens/cracks no amount of fancy hose clamps will keep it from leaking. I have worm gear clamps that have been in place for 20 years leak free.
Now, eventually everything wears out and I have seen at least one ignorant person blame rubber wearing out on a worm gear clamp. It is true worm gear clamps do not flex with expansion/contraction/age. This isnt generally a problem because the rubber itself expands and contracts for you. The problem with spring tension style clamps is that even though they provide roughly even life-long clamping action, as rubber dries out it often needs more clamping force than these spring tension clamps provide and the end result is the same: a leak because the rubber is worn out.
The biggest complaint I have about worm gear clamps these days is how cheap they all are made. Pretty sure China has cornered the market on this too and now it is hard to find one that wont strip out with even small amount of tightening. Metal is too thin. I do like the fuel line and bolt clamp style which seem sturdier.
I noticed napa has some really good worm gears. and they are reasonably priced.
the ones from oreilly's are probably the worst though... I actually had a couple from them where the gear just turns / strips and the band actually broke.
The napa ones though seem (so far) really well built and are readily available.
How high a temperature and how evenly applied does it need to be in order to properly shrink the material all the way around on those?
The reason I ask is I can imagine so many places where spring clamps are miserable to remove or install, where I could see something like this working; however the amount of heat I would have to apply to that area in order to uniformly shrink the clamp would damage near by components.
For instance, I was working on a fuel pump today for a Toyota and the new pump had different terminals than the old one. Using heat shrink connectors to tie in the new harness was a hair raising (or burning) experience with the rest of the wiring and fuel bucket covered in gas. What is the primary heat application tool used?
+1 for the spring clamps. Can't just throw any old clamp on though, trick is to pick the right clamp for the hose outer diameter. You've gotta know hose dimensions and specs of the hose clamp.
+1 for the spring clamps. Can't just throw any old clamp on though, trick is to pick the right clamp for the hose outer diameter. You've gotta know hose dimensions and specs of the hose clamp.
Spring clamps are really good. Especially when you install them with the correct pliers. Makes it so much easier!!!
This is awesome, was just looking for something like this. Thanks for posting. I'll put in my 2 cents on worm gear clamps. I prefer the ones from the factory, you know, to keep the car correct. but for aftermarket, Germans have the best type. you can fine tune them. Here is an example.
This is awesome, was just looking for something like this. Thanks for posting. I'll put in my 2 cents on worm gear clamps. I prefer the ones from the factory, you know, to keep the car correct. but for aftermarket, Germans have the best type. you can fine tune them. Here is an example.
The grooves on U.S. style clamps are too far apart. they use a different technique, look close at where the grooves/notches would be located on the example
The grooves on U.S. style clamps are too far apart. they use a different technique, look close at where the grooves/notches would be located on the example
Ahh, I see, meaning, you can tighten the German ones a little more as the teeth will engage more "screw" since the teeth are closer together.
Ahh, I see, meaning, you can tighten the German ones a little more as the teeth will engage more "screw" since the teeth are closer together.
these will tighten more precisely, also higher quality than anything I've found on amazon, I'd like to find a source for these in bulk. haven't had any luck.
It looks like there are 2 different versions of the Gates heat shrink clamps, but can only seem to find one of them on the Gates website. How long are these?
Fuel line:
For 6an or 5/16" fuel lines,@ track legal, I prefer high quality breeze hose clamps over braided hose. You can use two of them in a row some places to ensure leak free and simple access.
I have found this to be superior longevity and less worrisome that typical AN fittings.
Once needed to go 8AN+ I will prefer PTFE with machine crimped ends using only steel fittings.
Oil Relocation lines:
This goes doubly so for oil relocation lines, any lines with engine oil ALWAYS use PTFE and steel machine crimp fittings.
I've seen too many engines ruined because of typical braided hose getting clogged or bent shut, or crushed. The PTFE On the other hand seems to withstand tremendous force.
Coolant hose:
This is where you can get creative. I don't mess around with fuel or oil, but for coolant hoses, a Constant tension or shrinkable or whatever is fine because who cares if it leaks a little or moves at first, its fine. If I am attaching a cooling hose for the first time then I am using 100% distilled water anyways so I encourage a loose-ness and a bit of leakiness in these areas at first. If only to make sure the fittings or clamps or whatever are not too tight.
Usually there is a sort of 'crust' that builds up over long enough period of time (heat cycles) that helps to 'stick' coolant hoses, in many cases you can completely remove the clamp and the hose will not leak even under 15psi of radiator pressure after long enough time has passed. So a tightness that allows leaking at first will eventually 'seal up fine' after some heat cycles.
If Using hose clamps I Will always under-tighten them. Then come back after a while, inspect, re-tighten them slightly, kind of like re-torquing your head studs or whatever. Because as everyone has pointed out: The worm drive clamps do not adjust over time to compensate for changes and the coolant hoses, due to their larger size (than say, fuel or oil) tend to change in shape a bit more I guess, with heat cycling.
The big issue I see with typical hose clamps on large diameter hoses is the uneven clamping force and the tendency to over-tighten them people have, which can damage the hose or radiator etc... Thus I will use the 'loosest' or 'simplest' type of clamp which generally is the spring load clamps 'constant tension' which seem to distribute force more evenly and prevent overtightening.
Power steering
I've had great luck using hose clamps over a push-loc style hose on LS swaps for PowerSteering. The pushloc hose seems more durable than rubber, yet softer than braided, allowing a lower tension tightness to make a nice indent in that part of the hose. So you can kind of squeeze the hose around a barb more easily (less force) than with a braided hose. Being small diameter (usually 6an size) the evenness of tension isn't an issue. And the LS power steering reservoir and PS rack use metal barbs so you can tight them up nicely without breaking anything.
-Not a fan of AN fittings anywhere except when needed to use a PTFE hose, and even then use only steel AN fittings, avoid aluminum.
02-27-2022, 07:18 PM
