Fast355

iTrader: (2)

If you like cold a/c and have an open mind watch these. By open mind, keep in mind this is a HC refrigerant, which has proven very functional, reliable, and safe. It is widely used and commerically accepted in MOST other countries. You have more pressurized HC in your car if you have a can of HairSpray or other pressureized aerosol in your car/truck/suv. I am not here for a lecture, but rather just a demonstration of how well it works.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Bravo! Well done. Only thing I would suggest is using the "macro" mode if your camera has it. On my camera, it will show a small flower icon when the macro mode is on. It focuses on close up detail (anything less than about 2 feet away) with better detail. Makes it easier to read things like the thermometer.

How often is the cycling while on the highway?

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

What is your low pressure cycle switch psi set at?

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Thanks, I am enjoying it.

I am not sure that my camera has it, but it may, I will have too look.

Depends on the settings, but it is every 20-30 seconds.

The Dodge does not have a low pressure cycle switch. It has a high side pressure sensor and a thermal sensor in the evaporator, both of which feed the BCM, which controls the evaporator temperature, via the compressor clutch and cooling fan.

The pressures are almost identical to what they were with R134a due to the condensor. At 100*F and Idle with R134a the low side was 55 psi and the high side 340 psi. With HC290 it is 55 psi on the low side and 315 psi on the high side. Cooling is much better.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

So it's non adjustable then as far as cutting off the low temps?

20-30 seconds sounds just right. Hard to do with pretty much anything else. Not wearing out the compressor by chronic cycling (every 5 seconds on/off), while still allowing some gas mileage and equipment rest for the system when it's off.

I was just out in the Blazer a few minutes ago (R-134a), it cools to fairly comfortable level after driving for 10-15 minutes. But still not "oh wow this feels great" like your truck does. MAX A/C is mandatory. NORM just won't cut it this time of year.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

The only way to adjust it would be reflashing the BCM and it has the "extreme climate" update flash from the dealer in it already. It dropped the vent temps about 4*F, laughable at best.

I know its not the most accurate thing, but I have driven it 200 miles in the past 3 days and the mileage already seems to be coming up.. Maybe 1 mpg and the engine feels a little more torquey on the highway.

I was out in the Nissan Titan that is our parts truck at the dealership I work for and even with its huge condensor, add-on pusher fan, and large engine driven clutch fan, it took 10-15 minutes for the truck to get comfortable inside.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

That should be standard on every vehicle no matter where you live.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

The largest condensor possible should also be standard on EVERY vehicle. The condensor on this Ram must have been designed by someone from Alaska!

CaliChevyLover

holy sh*t.

89 Iroc Z

Is HC-290 propane? I hope that does not leak haha.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Good man, HC-290 is propane...A leak would not be good but really not too bad either. I had a large, rapid leak from the compressor seal in my Chevrolet Express van while driving around with a hot engine. No bang, no fire, just a loss of cooling. I am more worried about the stock fuel system leaking than the A/C. Especially since the stock fuel line is the hard plastic stuff just like GM uses and its running at 58 psi. The fitting from the line to the fuel rail is plastic and sits right over the driverside exhaust manifold. Not to mention there is a 26 gallon plastic tank of the stuff right under the drivers seat.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

There are also HC's in those inflate a flat tire cans.

Yes, HC-290 is propane. The rest is butane and/or isobutane. Propane is one of the safest "flammable" refrigerants out there. It disperses very quickly when a leak occurs. Gasoline on the other hand stays wet on the ground and expels flammable vapor for quite some time. On a vehicle A/C system, there would be about 8 ounces of propane. Maybe 4 ounces of butane. We're talking a few Bic lighters worth of refrigerant. Not exactly the Hindenburg.

HC's are legal to switch to from R-134a. No ozone depletion in either. There are a few states that say it's illegal though. The trouble is that switching to HC's from R-12 is illegal. That's right. Instead of switching to something that cools better than R-12, has no oil or moisture issues, and is cheap to make and buy. They want you to switch to R-134a which absorbs moisture like a sponge, has incompatible oil, cools worse, and is expensive by the time you add parts and labor. The motor vehicle lobbyists WANT you to spend more money retrofitting and repairing down the road. Dupont actually was going to make R-134 instead of R-134a as an R-12 retrofit. Would have worked in R-12 mineral oil cars. Government voted against it.

Just how much safer are "non-flammable" traditional refrigerants? This is R-12 and mineral oil. Once you add an ignition source, it's quite flammable. This is a ratio of 15% mineral oil in relation to the R-12. My Trans Am came from the factory with 2.25 lbs of R-12 and 6 oz of mineral oil (16.6% ratio). Essentially the same. This was done back when it was still legal to vent R-12.

FYRCHKN

So, how would one go about doing this? Just let out all the 134a and pump it up with propane or do you need to get all of the oil out of the system?

ChainHartMachin

That's a cold A/C! Sounds like it would do great in a Phoenix summer.

What did you have to use as far as charging it? Are any adapter fittings needed (similar to R-12 -> R-134a conversions)? Would R-134a manifold gauges (and the charging hose) work?

I take it there hasn't been any issues with the evaporator icing up?

Where do I get HC-290? Is there a guide line with regards to how much to use based on R-12 or R-134a capacity?

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Evacuate the R-134a. Shop could take it off your hands fairly cheap.
Run a vacuum on the system.
Charge up with HC of choice (HC-12a, RedTek, Duracool, whatever...) paying attention to install instructions and pressures. HC-12a is about $8/can. Takes 40% as much as you would have with R-134a.

Works with your PAG/POE oil just fine.

Can't simply pump it up with straight propane as the butane is what carries the oil through the system.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

http://www.foxtoolsupply.com/HC-12a.htm

The R-290 is propane (the ingredient, not the name of the product)

No fittings are needed for original R-134a vehicles that have been converted to something else.... Only vehicles that were originally R-12 need to have unique adapters put on when anything other than R-12 is put in the system.

There is no unique adapter for HC-12a because it's not supposed to be used to convert R-12 --> HC-12a.

Only R-134a --> HC-12a is legal.......R-12 to HC-12a will work just fine. Just not legal. This is how all the HC products are legal to sell and legal to buy. They're assumed to be for R-134a vehicles.

Goes in with regular R-134a gauges and service port hose. (see the pictures on their website)