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I’ve been trying for about a year to buy a used set of q forms or Bose kicks, no dice. New Q Forms with a 20% discount from Taylor are still $400 CDN. It took a while to peel my wife off the ceiling.
Home brew kicks it is. It’s not the right way, it’s not the only way. But it’s the way I’m going to do it - staying true to my no cut/no drill goal, I want everything I’ve done to the car to be 100% reversible with no trace of alterations.
Starts with a sacrificial colour matching plain kicks from a local strip shop.
3/4” mdf cut in a perimeter provides structure to the kick and allows the woofer to “drop in”, making as much area as possible in the space used (6.5s are probably too much for any kick panel).
The kicks and a pillars are opened up to expose the cavity behind (need all the space I can get to let the woofer breathe).
The kicks are 4.5” deep and are offset 22.5* - in the car measured closer to 25*. Not as deep as I’d like, but that’s maximum without protruding further than the “dead pedal”. I’m 5’10” size 10.5 shoe, my wife however is a hobbit, 5’3” and a size 9 shoe, but I think I’ll be all right if I adjust the front seats all the way back.
The speakers? Old School MB Quart RSB218 components with the competition crossovers.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 09-24-2023 at 06:36 PM.
I had friends who worked in car audio before Q-logic and all the other companies started making pods and boxes. This is how they did it. It worked really well.
I had friends who worked in car audio before Q-logic and all the other companies started making pods and boxes. This is how they did it. It worked really well.
A friend had a handmade set from Sound Satisfaction (Ralph Benedetti’s shop) in his base model 86 Camaro back in the day, just awesome. I wish I had seen them done.
I can get Fleece from Amazon, but I’m not sure where to get decent resin in Canada. Automotive stuff sure, but I hear there’s better.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 09-24-2023 at 08:45 PM.
They used fiber glass roving and used marine resin. The roving was usually pulled tight over the wood/plastic or MDF supports then the resin was applied. Then matching vinyl was put on over the resin hardened roving or it was sanded and painted. After that the speaker grill went on over. It usually looked pretty good.
I was concerned that the angle on the kicks wouldn’t be sufficient. A coworker volunteered an old set of civic q forms for measuring: 40* of offset. That is significantly more than my current 22*.
I reworked the kicks for absolutely max angle without overtaking the dead pedal pedal. I had to “drop” the drivers side 1.25” to accommodate the additional protrusion.
The angle of my kicks is now at 30*. There is more available I’d wager but I’m not in a position to pursue it. As it stands now my kicks clear the floor and firewall meaning hopefully reduced chance of water damage.
Also added in the mdf rings for flush mounting the mids.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 09-26-2023 at 09:25 PM.
cool project! thanks for sharing.
can you take a picture with one of these just placed in the car to see how far it sticks out into the foot space? i wanted to install 5.25" speakers in my TA factory dash locations, but it would require dash modifications on the driver side. now i'm debating doing something similar to you or building pods in the front lower door panel area. really want to use 6.5" component speakers but they're pretty large.
thank you, I have a vacation coming up, so I’ll be away next week.
Originally Posted by battmann
cool project! thanks for sharing.
can you take a picture with one of these just placed in the car to see how far it sticks out into the foot space? i wanted to install 5.25" speakers in my TA factory dash locations, but it would require dash modifications on the driver side. now i'm debating doing something similar to you or building pods in the front lower door panel area. really want to use 6.5" component speakers but they're pretty large.
6.5s are too big for any kick panel, they need a door to fire into - the reason I opened up the kicks to the pocket in the a pillar. I would go the 5.25 route in the kicks if I didn’t already own 2 sets of Quart 6.5s.
I’m a heavy equipment technician. at 4:00 in the afternoon I smell and look like a heavy equipment technician. I’ve never had such quick and efficient service as I received this afternoon at FabricLand, it’s like they couldn’t wait to get me out of the store for some reason. I was in heaven, all those clean Linens and my hands just as black as coal. Lol, I scored a bolt? napkin? Chunk of fleece at a terrific price and met some lovely people. Color is dang near spot on too. I’ll have the tweets low and toward the back of the kick - like Soundman, pointed at the dome light.
cool project! thanks for sharing.
can you take a picture with one of these just placed in the car to see how far it sticks out into the foot space? .
For Battman
A little better than equal distance gas pedal to brake.
the rings are massive, 8” in diameter. This is being done to accommodate flush mount as well as being a displacement grab.
the panel isn’t mounted with screws yet and seems it would tuck in a little more. You can see the pocket in the a pillar exposed for every little cu ft.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 09-27-2023 at 08:13 PM.
thanks for posting the pic in the car. these are pretty big and the speakers I was hoping to use are 6.5" i do have a set of 5.25" as well. looking like it might be better to use the smaller set.
thanks for posting the pic in the car. these are pretty big and the speakers I was hoping to use are 6.5" i do have a set of 5.25" as well. looking like it might be better to use the smaller set.
Agreed, particularly if you’re looking to use them full range vs with a dsp or 12dB or more crossover.
Fibreglass & resin will set you back here in Canada these days. Thankfully Princess Auto has had a sale recently and is still honouring that price, a boot 60% of normal retail. Locally Available material is from boat vendors or Bondo, nobody has time for this stuff to clear customs. I haven’t got a boat budget
Bondo’s “big” fibreglass repair kit comes with a quart of resin, a great big sheet of fibreglass matt, spreader tool and hardener.
The pods still look good, they each have a seam to eliminate the “gather” from stretching the material, I’ve “hidden these by placing them as low as possible and forward, which I hope means they’ll act like a spine for the largest (and weakest portion) of the pod.
Enjoying the posts, fun watching things be made. Thanks for sharing
Thank you for the encouragement, definitely in the doldrums of the project at this time. It’s no longer pretty, there are no short cuts and regardless of how much you do the mess is still the same size.
I’m holding off until the weekend for the next coat, the temperature is going to drop dramatically which helps extend set time. I’m hoping to get away with two coats of heavy glass mat, maybe one coat of rondo (resin & bondo blend) to reduce the sanding. I plan to finish the pods in Bedliner it’s quite forgiving, I won’t have to worry as much about imperfections.
Love seeing others fabricate audio stuff for our 3rd gens. You're doing great!
I once made a write-up for building speaker pods, not sure if anyone else would find this useful.
The one thing I learned since making mine, is get good fiberglass resin. The stuff you get at Home Depot, sucks. I bought some from US composites, and it's much easier to work with.
Love seeing others fabricate audio stuff for our 3rd gens. You're doing great!
I once made a write-up for building speaker pods, not sure if anyone else would find this useful.
The one thing I learned since making mine, is get good fiberglass resin. The stuff you get at Home Depot, sucks. I bought some from US composites, and it's much easier to work with.
that came out clean! I had considered this route in the early stages as it does offer more room, but being new to fibreglass it I felt this route to be easier (but it’s not lol).
I’m undecided how I want to mount the pods to the kick panels. Part of me wants to put foam tape around the perimeter and part of me wants to silicone them on. I believe you had the right idea, it all needs to be “one” or it’ll vibrate like crazy.
The weather did not cooperate, cold and wet. I’m hoping they will be ready for sanding and paint this weekend. Exothermic process and all, I’ve got them warming up gently in my shed.
I’m making heavy investments in tooling to locate the tweeters.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 10-15-2023 at 07:19 PM.
Ive got some shaping to do in the arch, maybe a layer of resin in strategic areas before going to rondo.
I’m going to hit the areas unseen with some 80 grit just to give the rondo something to grab, I won’t be going to lengths to flatten out anything more than extreme highs.
These look great and I'm certain you can tune them to sound amazing. I just hope they don't get in the way of comfortably driving
Thank you. For me, I never used the dead pedal. I usually tuck my left leg up.
Originally Posted by battmann
These are looking awesome! You have a dome tweeter in your system as well right? Where are you putting that?
Once the kicks are in I’ll decide if they’re going on the tiny arched section or on the kick panel itself. Wherever there’s line of site to the dome light, longest path possible.
Enjoying the thread! ...and yes, I noticed the old Lunchbox!
Thank you.
Pods are mounted to the second hand kick panels with 3/4” wide x 1/2” thick foam tape. Shake, knock or bump, no rattles they’re eady to test in the car.
If they’re sound (…) I’ll be finishing them this weekend.
Sadly I have not yet heard these in the car. My wife wanted to see the leaves and enjoy what we expect to be the last warm day with the Trans Am. Who am I to say no?
I did get a couple of hours in before dinner.
The MB Quart MUSICOMP crossovers fit perfectly under the dash pad. Wiring is routed, hushpanels are installed. Im trying them first with no polyfil and then again with to see if there is an improvement.
Im so stoked to hear these in action.
Ive got my well worn set of woofers in place for testing, saving the clean pair for the final result.
The stage is everything I could hope for. The 3/4” tweets are a bit light, the 1” just right.
Sadly my Alpine 3554 amplifier is packing it in, channels 1&2 breaking up. The impetus for this build was what I thought to be failing kicker 4x6s, turns out it was the amplifier all along.
I’ll be swapping on my faithful 3552 (the Lamborghini sub amp) for the front - making use of the bi-amp capability of the Quart crossovers (allows offset of woofers and tweeters via the fader on the eq). A little lean on power at 30Wx4, but I believe should work out.
I’m in the market for a 150W @ 4 ohm sub amp, looking locally at a 3548 but not getting great communication from seller.
It is like Pandora’s box, once you start messing with it…
My new to me 3548. Paired up with the 3552 they make the poor man’s 3566.
The Alpine 10s bump like crazy isobaric on my baffle board - 100W from the rear channels of the 3552, can’t wait to hear them on the 3548 (160W).
More importantly I can’t wait to Bi-Amp the Quarts, have the fader control on that EQ act as intermediary for the woofers and tweets. I do want to move the tweeters a little more before settling on their current position, they’re quite vulnerable.
Add another RCA set for the Bi-Amp. Pull a second set of speaker wires, for the Bi Amp. Pull another 8 gauge feed to power the 3548. Build a beauty panel / amp rack for underside of my spare “trunk” cover. Relocate the crossovers to the amp rack. Build a box for the subs to replace the baffle board…
I’m right back to where I was 30 years ago.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 11-07-2023 at 07:57 PM.
That's exactly how I felt when you first posted about the Alpine amps. Brought me back to the 90's. I'm sure there's a box of various alpine amps, at my parents place that hasn't been opened since 1995.
It is like Pandora’s box, once you start messing with it…
I’m right back to where I was 30 years ago.
I feel ya there, I had two 12s in the hatch of my first thirdgen back in the 90s, and I just threw a full system in my current thirdgen and that first hard bump during testing made me feel like a kid again
That's exactly how I felt when you first posted about the Alpine amps. Brought me back to the 90's. I'm sure there's a box of various alpine amps, at my parents place that hasn't been opened since 1995.
Gold. I got burned on the little 3548, bad right side channel and the seller is not replying (Shame on you John). It’d be nice to have a treasure trove to root through.
Originally Posted by StevenK
I feel ya there, I had two 12s in the hatch of my first thirdgen back in the 90s, and I just threw a full system in my current thirdgen and that first hard bump during testing made me feel like a kid again
.
That’s what it is all about. My wife had great expectations for the stereo in this car and it’s never lived up to it until now.
Productivity is down, trying to get things buttoned up for winter. I may have to put this to rest for the season as it’s too cold to be moving 40 year old plastic. The little 3552 on the quarts and the 10s is just a treat. It’s not loud (gains need to be dialed) but sooo clean. The image is just as good as I’d hoped. I’ve got to dig out my cds as the Bluetooth so does not cut it for sound quality.
Kickpanels are where it’s at folks, you need these if you’re looking to move past your 4x6s.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 11-12-2023 at 07:53 PM.
Gains are dialed in and my best efforts made to get the kicks & new sub arrangement tuned.
It does sound good, Unfortunately not what I had hoped for. Big gaping hole at 60 - 250Hz even after tuning, some ugliness at 3K. I’ve tried swapping sub polarity to correct issue at 250Hz without improvement, I’m guessing roll off from box and smallish kick panels are no help. I do have a set of 8” woofers spare, perhaps in the b pillars…
I've never seen a tweeter floating like that, does it have any effect not being in a sealed pod?
Great question
Simply, no.
long winded,
Ideally the face of the cone of a speaker would be sealed from the rear to prevent cancellation. This is why we preach about sealing drivers to door skins/grill. However this is inherent with tweeters as the rear of the cone is the magnet itself. Ideally the should be no more than the diameter of the woofer cone away from their paired driver to keep the stage on the same plane. All the new school kids with their DSPs and A pillar pods can fight me. In the old school with tweeters we focused more on reflection, these little guys are aimed at the dome light, but will generate loads of reflection off of the hush panels.
I received a gift from a fellow gen x installer, I thought I’d never find them.
09-24-2023, 06:26 PM
