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I’ve tried to make the best of the stock speakers and a stock replacement stereo. My wife? unimpressed.
Now it’s time to get the funk out.
Let’s start with the prime movers.
Pheonix Gold MPS-2240 2x25W @ 4 ohm, dead stock, honest. This amp was part of a Pheonix Gold sponsored truck in the late 80s, early 90s. Look closely, tell me what you see.
Pheonix Gold MS-275 2x75. Showroom stock, they had a sound board with a “welding” station, powered by one of these amps.
As you might guess, these units are near to identical, the claims of 25x2 out of the MPS-2240 is almost comical with the covers removed.
Killer sound quality, power for days, load them up in almost any configuration. Plain white heat sinks and quite frankly stunning circuit boards. Not many could touch PG in those days.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 06-11-2021 at 07:38 PM.
Life’s like a box of chocolates, you never know what Facebook marketplace will give you.
A dual 8” sub box, 3/4” mdf very stoutly built - for free. Lad is moving house and she’s helping him lighten his burden…
36” wide x 8” tall by 9” deep. Too wide to fit in the trunk, but because it is well constructed, it can be undone. Silicone vs glue at the joints, cuts easily and the countersunk hardware is easily removed.
Now 29x8x9, just shy of 1/2 cu ft per side. With the subs firing forward, the amps will mount nicely to the top of the box - allowing the “trunk lid” to close, hiding it all away and leaving room for the t top bag.
If you know me at all, you know I love GM parts. How about factory 8” subs out of 2010 to 2015 Torrent or Equinox? Made by Pioneer, these little guys are 2.125 Ohm, dual voice coil.
I’ll be running them mono, in a series/parallel configuration for a 2.125 Ohm load, easily within the limits of the MPS-2240.
Cabling installed. Routed the amp power cable through a factory harness location inside the passenger fender.
Well, the little box pounds just fine. The factory trunk lid blocks out much of the higher frequencies.
Sadly I can’t do much about it as the MPs-2240 is not operating, it powers on but no amplification. Very disappointed. Also the subwoofer mode on my cde9873 isn’t working. Lame, I need it for high pass filtering while I’m using deck power for the front end.
Cabling installed. Routed the amp power cable through a factory harness location inside the passenger fender.
Well, the little box pounds just fine. The factory trunk lid blocks out much of the higher frequencies.
Sadly I can’t do much about it as the MPs-2240 is not operating, it powers on but no amplification. Very disappointed. Also the subwoofer mode on my cde9873 isn’t working. Lame, I need it for high pass filtering while I’m using deck power for the front end.
Turns out my long term memory isn't what I'd like it to be. Looking at the MPS-2240 again, I found my error.
I remembered that the pony circuit board eliminates the gain on the amp, it must be run with a line driver (amplifier for the pre amp). That's why I had no audio with my weak sauce Alpine 2V out deck, its looking for 14V in.
All back together again, line driver pushing the MPS-2240. Lots of tweaking and it sounds acceptable as far as frequency reproduction. The two little Equinox (Pioneer DVC) 8's just bring it, Metallica, Prince, MJ all sound excellent. Would love the subwoofer function on the Alpine deck to ACTUALLY WORK (what bs that is, I can't get it to make any difference what so ever), so that I could make use of the high pass filter etc.
Still no "stage", It's like being on the far left of a broadway show. Next up custom kick panels and 6.5's.
If you want to make the Lord laugh, tell him your plans.
I had hoped to get some assistance with some 'cuts' to get the kick panels under way, that didn't happen yet.
I did come across a new (to me) Alpine CDA-7977.
It's a 'dead head', meaning no internal amplifier. This is a highly regarded head unit for its' day, probably the pinnacle of single din car stereos prior to MP3. The adjustable tilt face plate angle is a neat party trick, but so is the fold down feature to allow access to the disc. It does offer AI net which would allow for an input if Mrs Theraymondguy insists (and I can find an adapter). Super clean 0.5% THD 4V output on the preamps, this thing should deliver excellent sound quality. It also offers a 12dB hi an lo pass crossover, perfect for my application as I'm rapidly running out of trunk space - at about the cost of an imported two four.
I cannot wait to install it. I also picked up a somewhat more tired CDA-7875 (internal amp, 2V out preamps) to keep me motivated and for spares. Same family, but a few less features. I'll run it for now until the front end is completed.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 07-06-2021 at 10:31 PM.
So I’m not in love with the new Alpine deck. One of the most annoying things is accessing the subwoofer output, buried 4 button clicks deep into the audio submenu.
The line driver isn’t the most attractive after living for years under various dashes and carpets. The obvious answer is a bass ****, but this is a no cut no drill build.
I’ll use the gain control switch in series with the line driver gain, it’ll take some time but should be cool.
Gratuitous update amp install shot. Still needs a beauty panel, but that’s all. Subwoofers are configured at 1 ohm stereo. Say a prayer for my alternator.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 10-21-2021 at 05:07 PM.
it should be noted that the lower row center pin is to be the “switch” power input, not the “outside” pin. Reverse this and the gain lamp won’t light.
With the gauge cover removed, the switch bolts into the back of the gauge cover using the same hardware as the block out panel. It’s not at all difficult to fish your harness into the radio bezel. I powered the PLD-1 from the radio harness, the switch is used to provide the amplifier turn on signal. The PLD-1 mounts directly into a pre-existing set of bosses on the dash - literally like they were placed there on purpose.
Something to note is that there is very little space in the radio bezel. I’d really like to run my old Alpine, but there just isn’t room for the additional rca cabling and pre out voltage regulator.
G body guys have it made, “usable” back seat and room for activities in the radio bezel.
I’ve got it running, and I love it. There’s no distortion or “scratching” as the switch is operated. I interrupted the output positive of the PLD-1 output, ran it through the gain pot and out to the sub amp. I have the subwoofer setup as bridged 2 ohm mono, using the “left” signal only of the RCAs.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 11-07-2021 at 08:14 PM.
Great things see your progress! I know what you mean about the tight spaces. Fitting the 1.5 DIN from a.Grand Prix in my car is a chore each time in have to pull it. Be a lot easier with those shallow units now without a CD or cassette deck. Looking forward to seeing the next step!
How did you end up with the gain switch? Thought that was VERY clever to use as a base control ****. Might mimic your idea later on!
Great things see your progress! I know what you mean about the tight spaces. Fitting the 1.5 DIN from a.Grand Prix in my car is a chore each time in have to pull it. Be a lot easier with those shallow units now without a CD or cassette deck. Looking forward to seeing the next step!
How did you end up with the gain switch? Thought that was VERY clever to use as a base control ****. Might mimic your idea later on!
I found the gain switch by inquiring on a local Facebook board after seeing one on eBay.
I had thought about buying a non cd unit, but the only faceplate adapter I can find has the bump out, might as well use it.
Im hoping I can setup the deck to run the stock speakers and have “performance audio” turn on with the flick of one switch, but I’ll need front pods first to house the 6.5s.
My wife’s finally had enough of the stock radio in her car and she’s staked her claim on my new school CDE-175BT. This green-lights the effort required to make my old Alpine CDA-7977 fit in the Firebird pod, which is ridiculously small.
Chopping off the factory harness connectors would eliminate the massive stereo adapter which is easily half the problem - but, I’m not doing that. The CDA-7977 is a deadhead, no internal amp - let’s de-pin the Alpine harness and trim the Metra adapter.
The bezel is now organized, ready to receive the CDA-7977. Moving the two speaker harnesses out of the bezel makes a good bit of room, the tape tidied up some loose cabling.
Final result:
Very nice. I can’t imagine a deck with more accessories than the CDA 7977. It has rca harnesses like other old school decks, 4V converter and an AI Net cable (cd changed / aux in). The unused rcas and AI Net harness tuck up into mounting kit, the 4V Preout box tucks into the void beside the blower switch. The factory harness adapter fits neatly into right corner of the bezel now that it’s only 1/3 the size, the alpine harness folds against the base of the deck.
Ive got hours into this - is it worth it? Oh yeah. Nothing sounds better than an Alpine deck if this era.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 01-30-2022 at 01:39 PM.
Part of the justification for buying the cde 175bt was its Bluetooth function. I purchased a common Bluetooth ai Net adapter for the old school deck which was plug and play - for $20. SMH.
My wife and kids love the CDE175BT in my wife’s car, and you can make a hands free call in it, unlike my t top TA.
Back in the day we called Pheonix Gold amps, cheater amps, the power rating was usually conservative, but load them up and they shined. I ran Kicker ZR1000's with ZX460 and a ZR120. man I loved those amps, but dam they were big. Running Kicker Dual L7's. powered by an Eclipse dead head. I can't wait to get to the audio part of my restoration/rebuild.
Back in the day we called Pheonix Gold amps, cheater amps, the power rating was usually conservative, but load them up and they shined. I ran Kicker ZR1000's with ZX460 and a ZR120. man I loved those amps, but dam they were big. Running Kicker Dual L7's. powered by an Eclipse dead head. I can't wait to get to the audio part of my restoration/rebuild.
Im having every bit as much fun with the audio as I am the rest of the car. Honestly, one of the worst sounding factory stereo setups ever I’m sure.
I’m torn as to what to do for kick panels. I don’t want to buy the q logic units, they’re so cheap looking to me.
My car is a manual and I have the - pretty slim - BOSE kick panels installed. You lose a LOT of foot space when the kick panel is anything but flat,....... so be sure to trial fit the kick/speaker while footing the pedals to be sure you have as much room as you can get. Even if your car is an automatic, your probably going to want that speaker to sit as close to the body as possible.
Thanks John, I had my first measurement today with a completed kick panel. There is more than half of the vinyl footrest remaining with the kick installed. The “box” is 2.75” deep at its widest, there will be another 0.75” for the cover and speaker. I went with low depth speakers on purpose to reduce the encroachment.
My car is a manual and I have the - pretty slim - BOSE kick panels installed. You lose a LOT of foot space when the kick panel is anything but flat,....... so be sure to trial fit the kick/speaker while footing the pedals to be sure you have as much room as you can get. Even if your car is an automatic, your probably going to want that speaker to sit as close to the body as possible.
What did you use for a speaker in you Bose panels John? With four 4x6 speakers and UQ7, I'm seriously lacking in the mid-bass range. I'm hoping a pair of Infinity 6012i speakers that I have (6.5") might be coaxed into those housings in a largely flush fashion, and provide the missing mids. The look a lot like the ones Raymond is using.
Originally Posted by theraymondguy
Thanks John, I had my first measurement today with a completed kick panel. There is more than half of the vinyl footrest remaining with the kick installed. The “box” is 2.75” deep at its widest, there will be another 0.75” for the cover and speaker. I went with low depth speakers on purpose to reduce the encroachment.
Im hoping it’s not awful.
Which model of Infinity do you have there Raymond?
What did you use for a speaker in you Bose panels John? With four 4x6 speakers and UQ7, I'm seriously lacking in the mid-bass range. I'm hoping a pair of Infinity 6012i speakers that I have (6.5") might be coaxed into those housings in a largely flush fashion, and provide the missing mids. The look a lot like the ones Raymond is using.......
My kicks are still packed with the original BOSE (GOLD) speakers. The drivers side kick panel only fits a VERY flat BOSE speaker,...... the pass side will allow for 1 that's a little taller.
What did you use for a speaker in you Bose panels John? With four 4x6 speakers and UQ7, I'm seriously lacking in the mid-bass range. I'm hoping a pair of Infinity 6012i speakers that I have (6.5") might be coaxed into those housings in a largely flush fashion, and provide the missing mids. The look a lot like the ones Raymond is using.
Which model of Infinity do you have there Raymond?
They’re 6502ix’s, they’re a 6 3/4 hiding on a 6 1/2 frame.
I would love to know if the q logics and Bose speakers are sealed.
Sensitivity is high, tweeter has on board attenuation and position adjustable.
Unfortunately the grill is bulky.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 01-22-2023 at 01:04 PM.
My kicks are still packed with the original BOSE (GOLD) speakers. The drivers side kick panel only fits a VERY flat BOSE speaker,...... the pass side will allow for 1 that's a little taller.
I picked up a pair of those housings sans speakers (which I was OK with as I wanted to add newer ones). And yes, that driver side housing will 100% have to be modified. It's very shallow. The passenger side will need some love too, but not nearly as much. I'm using these in the hope that they can remain somewhat stock-ish in appearance.
Originally Posted by theraymondguy
They’re 6502ix’s, they’re a 6 3/4 hiding on a 6 1/2 frame.
I would love to know if the q logics and Bose speakers are sealed.
Sensitivity is high, tweeter has on board attenuation and position adjustable.
Unfortunately the grill is bulky.
Interesting. Here's the 6012i. Has the same "aimable" tweeter. These were installed in 6x9 adapters in the rear deck of my Olds Cutlass. Almost forgot they were there, but got them pulled about 5 minutes before the tow truck showed up to tow the Olds away as a donation. I'd like to reuse them, but it's not a deal breaker if I cannot. I'm not sure if I have the factory grilles still. They were not used in the Olds, but a lot of my extra grilles and parts got thrown out after the garage fire we had a few years back. So something will almost certainly have to be created.
I scrapped the wooden kickpanels, I didn’t love the the look. The infinity speakers were okayish, but they needed a bigger enclosure/cavity. I’ll be saving them for the $350 CDN shipped q logic’s. Tough to justify the same summer I’m replacing headers abd hopefully buying tires.
But I can’t go another summer on dash mounted 4x6 speakers.
I know I said a no cut, no drill build… but what about plain donor kick panels - no harm, no foul - right?
Digging through the miscellaneous audio bin, I found a sweet set of Orion XTR 4” woofers (carbon fibre cones and butyl surrounds) and a set of angle mount Mmats 1” tweets with passive crossovers. This will be the key to improving the audio - having quality tweets mounted low and as far away as possible with direct line of site, mounted no more than the woofers radius from the woofer: IE, 4” mid, tweeter should be no more than 2” from the woofer. Ideally the tweeters should be aimed at the roof of the car behind the listeners ear, and I’ve accomplished that easily here.
There’s a decent size cavity behind each kick panel. I removed the factory sound deadening to expose the cavity. I drilled a 2” hole in the donor kicks over each cavity, increasing the volume of my enclosure (part if the reason door speakers sound good is the door acts as massive enclosure). I’ll experiment, try without sealing the cavity and add foam to the entrance of the cavity to seal it to the kick plate. Also attempt to move the kick plate toward center to expose more of the woofer.
As far as protruding goes, I still have more than 1/2 of the drivers “dead pedal” with the kick panel fully seated.
I can’t wait to get it wired and hear them.
Last edited by theraymondguy; 06-24-2023 at 08:40 PM.
06-11-2021, 07:27 PM
