3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the update BADMAN. I went and visited esc's shop today (thanks esc!) and got to look at his working PBR setup. I snapped some photos of his left rear caliper as we worked the parking brake:

Not applied:


Applied:


This shows me that there is definitely something wrong with the pin moving to an angle on my calipers. I'm going to go out and adjust the free-travel out (as we've already tried adjusting it in). I've got a voicemail on Ed's phone...maybe he's got more ideas. I'm hesitant to just buy more calipers as these are brand-spanking new.

What's also interesting about the photos I took of esc's car is that the piston didn't really move outward when the parking brake was applied...

BADMAN

iTrader: (13)

Hope you have better luck than I did with those adjuster screws. They are in there! Cleaned surface rust off rotors and Brake-Kleened rotor and pads. Adjusted PB cables and brakes will almost hold car in drive at idle,still not good enough for me let alone the State Inspector. Left ED a voice mail,more to come....

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Adjusted the free travel screws to spec the best I could (those instructions are pretty vague... "apply slight pressure" ha!) Backing these off caused the pins not to get cocked at an angle when pulling the parking brake, so that's good. I then tightened the adjuster in the trans tunnel (I'd loosened it to do the free travel adjustment) to get the handle where I wanted it. Now get this...

It is almost stopping the car in drive. It successfully stops the car in Reverse. The brakes are working well by themselves - I can stop the rear rotor with the foot brake easy.

So...I'm wondering if I can find a shop to do my inspection and check the parking brake in reverse.

If all else fails, in Texas once a car is 25 years old and you have antique tags - no more inspection (safety or emissions). That leaves me 3 years...and BADMAN just 1.

Side question - are there any rear brakes that do not use this mechanism for the parking brake? Surely newer cars do something else and hold MUCH better. Not that I want to do another brake swap...

BADMAN

iTrader: (13)

The best e-brake setup IMO is like what's on my 99 F150. I have 4-wheel disc
and on the rear the rotor has an internal drum with a drum brake setup inside.Set the e-brake and it holds even with some gas pedal applied. Every time I do a rear brake job I just clean it out with Brakleen and lightly sand the inner drum and shoes.219,000 miles and they still work fine.

As for my e-brake prob I'm going to drive it a bit and see if pads will wear in some more. As for adjuster screws I'll see what Ed has to say. They are not coming out unless I find a allen wrench that's made of hardened steel.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Hey there fellas, I did get you message Larry.

That's a nice read with a lot of info. I too am having issues with the cables on my car, big suprise huh...

The first design cables: Cables have the correct cable sheath length but the cable itself is too short.

The second design: cable sheath is too short, cable is way too long.

I will be having my cable vendor copy the first design cables and add the right length to the cable, problem solved with the cables. I'll replace the cables I supplied if you'd like a pair, just let me know.

On to the parking brake issue. Please note, this style parking brake is not meant to stop the rotor while running. It can't and WILL NOT lock the rear wheels while driving, not meant for that. It's just for holding the car in place.

Free travel adjustment: this is meant to parallel the pad face with the rotor face and in turn bind the rotor when applied. The Allen screw holds the adjusting plate parallel to the rotor in combination to the actuating pin that the lever moves. When engaged, it will cause the whole thing go sideways and bind up the rotor, it won't be parallel and engage at the same time so this is normal.

Given all that, I don't know why they aren't working for you. I do know the screws are in there pretty good, I've gone through a number of Allens myself but I don't always need to remove them either.

Larry, I noticed in your pics that your lower guide pin boot is off. If you get moisture and/or dirt in there the caliper won't adjust correctly, I'd take a look there too. Make sure the pins are lubed up good.

BADMAN, I'd check your guide pins too, if the caliper isn't sliding well this may cause poor pad engagement on the rotor.


Ed

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Ed - thanks for chiming in. It seems I'm getting closer, with the pb working when I have the car in reverse. I understand that the pb isn't meant to stop the car while moving, I was just referring to the normal testing method here in tx:
1. Pull parking brake
2. Put car in drive
3. Let off brake
4. If the car moves, you fail.

Thus far, my pb will fail me when the trans is put in drive. If I use reverse, it holds fine. This makes me think it is an issue with the pad, as it is grabbing when going one direction but not as well the other. What could cause this? I'm leaning toward either more free travel adjustment (which I hate, my caliper lever doesn't naturally the gap the instructions describe, and "applying slight force" makes this gap vary enough for the directions to not be very accurate) or uneven pad wear (I've got less than 20 miles on these pads not including pb testing...not likely)

what would your next step be Ed?

black_highway

Ed, when ever you get those cables made I'd like to buy a set!

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Well - I bit the bullet and bought a new rear set of calipers and the best ceramic pads I could. I know that the problem lies at the caliper and past, so hopefully doing a basic caliper replacement job will eliminate some of the trouble I'm having. If these work, maybe Ed can have pity on me and buy my calipers back to reman...

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

I'll do that, I can use them.

Ed

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Any update? I have new cables on the way, please contact me if you need replacements.

Ed

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Parts are still in the boxes, Ed. I haven't had time to work on the car again.

I already replaced the raybestos cables with AC Delcos, so I won't be needing any custom length. Thanks though.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

I could use a set.....my cables are waaaay too long....PM sent

BADMAN

iTrader: (13)

Well,found my problem today. Pulled calipers and remove mounting bracket off caliper guide pins. They were packed with old grease and dirt. Seems when rebuilt they were not cleaned. Boots on pins were correctly installed,so no dirt or crud was getting into them since my installation. Cleaned them off and used spray lithium grease and put back together. Pad now contacts 100% and after adjusting brake lever,car now holds in drive. Got State Inspection today and passed,last year for emmissions as next year car will be 25 years old. Hope you get your prob solved Eye Candy.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

New cables arrived the other day. The next day I'll have enough daylight to take some good pics will be Monday so I hope to update this thread then.

Ed

black_highway

Any updates on this?

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

My normal car-working buddy (my awesome Dad) is working until November. I'm currently trying to recruit help to get these parts on while the nice weather is here.

If you're referring to Ed's cables - you got my update for free

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Wanna come lend me a hand? I'll buy you lunch

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

SOLVED!

This has been too long in coming and it makes me happy and angry just to think about it.

What was it? My idle was too high in gear. Ed's parts were fine, my freetravel adjustment is fine, cables are fine....earlier in this thread I wrote that I took my car in to get the idle adjusted by my tuner. They adjusted it (or so I thought) and the car idled lower. I haven't been happy with their service and was dreading putting more brake parts on this car when a new coworker told me about his eerily similar issue with the parking brake working in reverse and not drive. He adjusted his idle (carb) down and got the car inspected.

So...I took the plunge and bought EFI-Live for my LS1 (now up to $1850 invested in attempting to fix rear brakes - Ed's kit, new calipers/pads, EIF-live). Looking at the idle tables compared to a stock 2002 LS1 - every sensor was being ignored and the car was being forced to 800 RPM always. Wrong! Copied the stock tables back in (and adjusted alot of other things I wasn't pleased with) and tested. It works! Woohoo! (and on a side note, my idle is much better and the car cranks easier).

Big thanks to all who have contributed, especially Ed. I think with everything I've been through on this parking brake - we can now definitively say that the right parts and settings will yield a working parking brake - no magic involved.

mooch1

hi , i have a stupid question!,,i have this set up to convert my 10 bolt drum rear to discs ...the piston on the pbr caliper can be pushed in with a c-clamp?

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Yes.

JamesC

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

ED, any updates on those 91 RS cables yet?

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

I had to tweak the design a bit but your cables are shipping out to you directly from the vendor. When installed on my car the outer cable cover was a bit shorter than I liked and left a bit too much slack in the cable. Please let me know how your install goes. Thanks!

Ed

mooch1

hi ed , we spoke this past sunday , any news on my rear brackets?
thanks.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Shipped out yesterday. I'll send you an e-mail soon..thanks!

Ed

black_highway

That was the exact issue i had with the NAPA 2nd design cables.

mooch1

[quote=ebmiller88;4338267]

mooch1

hi ed ,, ok thanks ,,i can't wait to get these brackets and switch my drums to discs,,,i will let you know when i get them....thanks again.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Update: Actually, the new cables work fine. My supplier put a return spring at the caliper end of the cable but it was 3-4 coils too long. I cut about half an inch from the spring, reinstalled on my car and all is well. I did adjust the cable design a bit but it will still be an improvement. We're good!

Ed

black_highway

How much would it be to get a set of the new cables?

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

Put the new cables on and they fit WAYYYYYY better, thanks. There stil some adjustment issue left tho cause the ebrake won't hold the car in drive or reverse at idle...any suggestions? I cranked the self adjusting ebrake about 40 times but no luck. Possible free travel adjustment?

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

First thing is to determine if your cables are adjusted properly. Each caliper has a lever that the parking brake cable attaches to. It should be pulled toward the mounting point for the parking brake cable on the caliper.


When the lever is pulled toward the mount, it pushes on a pin that is attached to the bracket that holds the inside brake pad. This pushes the pad out and applies pressure to the rotor. The lever should move enough that the pad is firmly pressed against the rotor and you cannot turn the rotor by hand/with a cheater bar. The length it travels varies.(depending on pad condition and the adjustment in the transmission tunnel/at the cabin lever).

Once caliper lever movement is confirmed, your issue resides either: at the caliper/pad/rotor or at the force being applied to turn the rotor (engine). Before continuing, verify that your engine idle while in gear is normal (my LS1 ends up around 550 rpm, yours may be different).

If the idle checks out, we know the issue is at the rotor/caliper/pad. Free travel adjustment adjusts how parallel the pad is to the rotor. There are instructions linked to previously in this thread that detail how to properly adjust the free travel - follow them. Your calipers may/may not need adjusting.

Hope this helps

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

Come to think of it....my idle was a little high as the car wasn't fully warmed up yet. I didn't think it was too high when I checked them....I'll try it again with the rpm's a little lower. I don't have any adjustment in the tunnel tho and there's still a little bit of play where the cables hook up to the equalizer (it seems like it should be tighter) I was also able to turn the wheel by hand with the brake applied although it wasn't all that easy

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

When I finished my parking brakes - I could not turn the rotor by hand or with a cheater bar.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

Well I tried it with the tach at 500 and it holds in reverse at about 16 clicks....Drive is another story.....I cranked the brake all the way up and she still creeps forward....it's so close its driving me crazy

mooch1

hi , i will be converting my rear drums to pbrs and discs with ed miller's no hassle and no drilling back plates i just got....i hope my e-brake will work....right now with the drums my e-brake is great ...it will hold the car down the driveway in drive or reverse..even if i tap the gas pedal!....one thing about the drums is even if they don't stop as well as discs...the e-brake if adjusted properly works like a charm...i will be posting my progress next week.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

You sure the lever in the cabin is adjusted all it needs to be? That's alot of clicks! Good luck with your brakes - but when mine worked in reverse and not drive, it ended up being that my idle in drive was too high.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I agree. Mine clicks seven times. You can see a pic of the brake engaged below in my Car Details, should you wish to take a peek.

JamesC

mooch1

hi , i just started my rear drums to discs swap...i installed the ed miller brackets after the shafts were removed and put them on...i had to align verything because the rotors would touch the brackets that hold the pads...one question...the calipers mount with the parking brake at the top?..or like in your picture at the bottom? ...both ways are really close to the axle on my car ,,but will work...thanks.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

On the bottom.

mooch1

thanks. i changed them around and it looks like it fits a little better that way,,it all fits nice, but sure is tight...i just neded to change the prop vale and bleed all the system ..i hope the 4 discs like i have now will brake better with no issues....thanks.

mooch1

hi , i just installed the e-brake cables and they are a little to long...i guess i will have to shorten them somehow so they are tighter,,maybe crimp them...i also got around to changing the prop valve...the brake lines for disc drum prop valves are not placed in the same way for the back brakes on a disc disc valve...so i need to bend and adjust a little here and there....i am actaully a little discouraged...i think i should of maybe of kept drums at the rear with an excelent e-brake i had !! ...i just hope once i bleed everything it brakes fine and the e-brake will grab a little better...i'll post my progress.... as for the brake cables ..did ed mention he had a modified set ?,,,thanks for your help so far.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

Well it passed inspection....my mechanic said the ebrake worked good enough. I guess I'll just mess with it over the winter and see if I can tighten it up. Maybe crimp a half inch long cable stop before the factory end

mooch1

i just adjusted the e-brake cables..i crimped them about 1-2 inches and it is really tight..it will hold the car barely down the driveway...i will see during the winter if i can adjust it a little more.free travel screw?.what's this?....the only thing is ..something rubs ...maybe the brackets on the discs....not sure yet...

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

something was rubbing on mine when I would take a corner but it seems to be going away....no gouges in the rotors tho....I'm pretty sure its the caliper brackets. According to James C, there should be shims between the axel flange and the new mounting plate. IDK if that would solve the problem but it makes sense.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

The shim and/or shims (I only used one on the pass side, IIRC) are used to center the carrier over the rotor. If the rotor is dragging on the outside, a shim will help. Check the following link, post #2:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/faq-...iscs-89-a.html

JamesC

mooch1

i think it's the brackets rubbing on the rotors too...shims? ...it rubs as i accelerate...the car stops well but i find my brake pedal is really hard ...why?..i also have to adjust the e-brake a little more...but all in all the brackets are like ed miller says ...no drilling and they are good quality and come with all the neccessary bolts to bolt on....the free travel adjust i have been hearing about...will this help the e-brake in any way?..what should one do?..tighten or loosen that screw?....thanks.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Badman posted a diagram and instructions on page 3.

JamesC

mooch1

hi , those instructions on the pic are pretty vague,,what did you do?..tighten or loosen that free travel screw?..i don't want to make it worse!!..thanks.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I used the instructions to good effect. I don't recall at this point what I did.

JamesC