Mikos_89

Has anyone here installed door skins on their 3rd gen? I'm debating whether to do this myself or take it to a body shop. Most body shops around here like the gravy train insurance work so doing a door skin install on a 32 year old car is not within their top interest. This is the vibe I usually get when I asked a few shops.

I watched a few youtube videos on it and it doesn't look too difficult to do. However, I want to get some first hand opinions on here before I make my decision.

Thanks.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Where are you finding thirdgen door skins available?

BuckyBadgerRS

full skin install= Gravy
Lower door skin install= suck city.

if your replacing a skin due to rust replace the whole door cause the inner skin is likely junk then too.

1989karr

I'd like to know this too!!

Mikos_89

Where am I finding door skins? Back in late 2001, I purchased 2 door skins, driver's side and passenger side, at the GM parts dept at my local Chevy dealer. I've owned the car since '96. I've asked this question a few times over the years while the car was in long term storage, but I could never could get a straight answer. I'm finally trying to put it back together and I'd like to install the new skins before I get it painted. My original panels have waves and some shallow dents on them. Along with the NOS GM fenders and doorskins, the car will be bondo/filler free.

There has to be at least one person here that has installed door skins on their 3rd gen. I don't want a whole new door shell because I want to save the factory stickers on the door jams. Also, since I already have the door skins, I'd like to use them since they're already paid for a long long time ago.

KEVIN G.

If you've never installed skins...you will no longer have a car with "no bondo".

The only reason to install skins is due to large damage, or a rust hole. (even at that, I would probably patch the rust over installing skins). I would repair the doors you have over installing skins. It is not really a DIY repair.

Mikos_89

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With the way my doors are, I don't want to have body work filler done on them. The doors are really wavy and I really don't know what's under the old paint because it was repainted when I bought back in '96, There's a guy on Youtube that has a video installing door skins and it doesn't look like rocket science. It's just a matter of grinding through the crimped edges on the sides and bottom and cutting/releasing the two or three tack welds up on top.

If I stick with the old doors, I'm going to have a thick layer of filler and these cars do not look good that way. My uncle had a '91 Z28 with body work filled up doors and it looked bad. Beautiful car otherwise, but once you got the doors it looked bad. Also, his car was black like mine. You pretty much need to have almost perfect body work (especially on the doors with a black car) because black shows every little thing.

I really don't know what's so hard about installing door skins. The guys on here have replaced quarter panels and floor board patch panels and that's a lot more involved than just a door skin. The reason why I'm thinking about doing this myself is that most shops around here are mostly DRP's. Having a guy bring in a door to have a new door skin installed on a 32 year old car is not something they would be interested in at any price. It's sad, but that's the way things are around here.

​​​​​Yeah, if I can install new skins on the doors, I can have a car that's virtually filler/bondo free. All other body panels are pristine .

KEVIN G.

I'm not telling you that you can't do it...I'm telling you if it's your first skin job, you won't install them without filler. Thus defeating your stated purpose. I've done a few, and they suck...but I was a painter long before managing, so heavy bodywork was not my forte'. I'm fine with body work. and have no problem getting these cars straight. I've done dozens. "Bondo" just gets a bad rap, because in the 70's and 80's people were packing rust holes full of the ****. That's not what it's for. If you are using it over good and (correctly) prepared steel, it will last the life of the vehicle...unless it gets hit in that spot again.

Knock yourself out. It's never worth anything unless you try. And since you've already bought the skins...
The biggest trick is getting the body lines in the correct place in the fitment of the skin over the shell. They can shift, and you are pointing the horizontal characteristic line uphill or downhill. You'll need good stands, and want to empty the shell of all components. They're heavy as can be... You would do well to use a metal bond around the perimeter, for better corrosion holdout...which is not easy if you're a first timer either. You'll need one with good work time, especially if it's your first time.

Mikos_89

I was thinking of mounting the door shell back on the car with the skin not crimped on all the way and then adjust it. That way, I can be sure of getting the body lines straight. They do sell door skin crimping tools which eliminate most of the old school hammer and dolly approach which required filler. The only thing I don't know is welding the two or three tack welds up on top. I don't have a welder.

Of course, I can wait until I get the car running again and just take it to a body shop and have the skins installed professionally. Hopefully, if I decide on that option, it won't cost too much to have it done by a body shop.

KEVIN G.

The skin tools are an extreme time saver, but you still have to know what you are doing. They will nearly eliminate the need for bodywork after installing the skin...but will take some practice. They can really F* up a panel as well. Re-mounting the door for a fit would be advised, but if you're using a panel bond, that needs to be factored in to your work time. And it can get messy. Panel bond will eliminate the need for welds, but I would prefer a couple tacks to be safe.

A shop will be looking at R&I of the door/trim and components, prep and install the skin, align to car, plus materials. Even without paint, I would say roughly 7-12 hours per side...and depending on their rate, could run approximately 600 per door. (rough guess)

Mikos_89

I can remove the trim and glass myself. I don't know why it would take 7-12 hours per side even accounting for the extra time aligning the door panel lines on the car before being tack welded.

From what I've read online, an experienced body man should be able to have the old door skins removed and the new ones installed in about an hour tops for each door. 7-12 hours? If it takes them 7-12 hours to do it, they don't know what they're doing IMHO. Heck, I don't even think it would take me that long to do it and I work slow.

KEVIN G.

You don't understand how body shops work. The industry has not worked in hour for hour pay in decades. Techs are paid flat rate for "book time". Each job pays a certain amount of hours for that operation. Some are stack-able, some are not. For instance, to replace a bumper may include removing the headlamps and grilles, but not optional spoilers or add-ons. Those add on parts are billable to the customer, or insurance company. Most doorskins pay anywhere from 6-8 hours to install. That will include R&I of the door, all necessary components, removal of the skin, pre-fit of the replacement skin, bonding of the new skin, and actual skinning the door. Corrosion protection, seam seal (if needed or installed to match factory appearance...), and finish are some of the "extra" billable operations.


The shop is going to charge "book time" whether the tech gets it done in half that time, or twice that time. The tech's pay is the same no matter what...his profit comes from being able to beat the time, as does the shop's. It's not going to matter to them what you feel the job should pay, or how long it will take. And please don't blame the shop...the insurance industry has made it this way. They have incited all of this by putting a choke hold on what they pay for, and what they will not. They continue to trim these times and cut the pay to the shops at every chance they get. Some companies actually bill the shop back, months after the vehicle has been completed and delivered, sometimes based on parts that they deem were "probably available" at the time of repair, for a lesser price than what was installed on the vehicle...

No tech is going to install a skin in "an hour". And IF they do...you want to be highly suspect of that repair's quality and longevity. I'll let you in on a little secret...most techs would rather repair a door, if cost effective, or replace the door with a used door, it's less hassle for them...and they can move on to the next job. Skins are not easy by any means. That's really all I'm trying to get across to you.

Mikos_89

Well, I have to tell you. You did your very best in trying to discourage me from installing door skins on my Firebird. From saying to get the current panels filled with mud to get them straight all the way to the way DRP body shops work these days with their flat rate pay scales. You did everything possible to steer me away from getting these door kins installed. It didn't work though. Thinking about this, I'd rather have new skins installed than the old doors filled up with "bondo" to get them straight. Also, the "originality" aspect of having the factory panels on there is busted. The passenger-side door had a new skin installed before I bought the car and it has a small nasty dent on it as well. PDR won't be able to save it. So, I'm really not compromising originality or collector value by replacing the skins. I'd rather have razor straight door skins than bondo filled up factory doors. Also, the skins are original OEM GM body panels not aftermarket. That's why I bought them years ago.

It doesn't look that hard to do. If I take my time, I think I can do this. I've disassembed countless third gen doors at the junkyard and even dismounted some doors as well. Grinding the edge of the door panel to release the skin doesn't seem that hard. Just take my time to be sure to not grind any of the shell where the skin mounts. Dismounting and remounting of the doors to be sure the body lines are correct doesn't seem that hard either. It's just more work, but I don't mind. Crimping over the edges of the skin doesn't sound that hard either. Just make sure you sand off the EDP factory primer on the flange edge of the door skin and the shell where they meet. Apply panel bond sealer on those surfaces and slowly crimp the edges together. As for the tack welds up top, I can probably use panel bond or take the completed doors to a shop and have them do a few tack welds for me. I can't be that expensive to pop in a few tack welds.

Hammer and dolly or a door skin crimp tool are the only things left. I can buy both tools and see what works the best. They're not uber expensive. I done some hammer and dolly work before so it's not like it's something brand new to me. I was hoping someone on here had installed door skins on these cars before, but I guess not.

KEVIN G.

That was NOT my intent...and if you feel that way, or if I came across that way...I'm sorry. I'm a realist. I've bid the work, I've seen the work involved, I've done the work. I was only trying to get you to see that it isn't your normal DIY automotive project. To get a sense of the scope of what you're trying to do. Earlier, I told you to try it...I didn't think that was discouraging but looking back, I can see where you might feel that way. Again, that was not my intent. And I would never tell anyone to "fill their doors with bondo"...but "bondo" isn't the evil that everyone perceives it to be.

I would rather see these cars saved. I had to let mine go, and I've regretted it since that day,

Good luck to you. If you want to reach out for any assistance, I'd be happy to help. Keep us posted

1989karr

IMHO get another door from some other car like a Camry or Corolla, and get some cheap door skins and practice.


Since you got something rare and probably unable to be found again (thirdgen skins).....You don;t want to mess up the thirdgen ones.


Who cares if you mess up on a Corolla, camry or sentra door right? But the practice wil ldef be worth it for a project like this!!


thats what I'd do!!


.

KEVIN G.

That's actually a great idea...Might be cost prohibitive, though. I'd try a bodyshop for a damaged door. They just scrap them out, anyway. Then you just need to find the skin for the door that you have located. Not usually any aftermarket skins out there...there are a few models where the skins are dirt cheap. Later model Chevy's, I think.

ZsTransAm

I always get a kick out of the people who've watched some youtube videos, seen an expert who has years of experience and has done hundreds of whatever whatever it is, and they decide its easy and they'll be able to do the same job with no practice in an hour. Before I became a painter I did a few skins under the guidance of an older bodyman and I can tell you its not as easy as they make it look, nor will it not need bodyfiller on your first time.. But I say go for it man, I got respect for the DIY car guys, but be realistic and go slow.

KEVIN G.

THIS is all I was trying to get across...

ZsTransAm

Also your in your original post you asked if anyone on here had done one, as you were debating doing it yourself or taking it to a shop. Well you actually found someone who had. In fact you found a professional who spent several posts warning you about doing it yourself. How did you arrive at the decision to do it yourself after all that? What was the point of the post?

Again, if you're the DIY type, have at it. Some people love the process of learning a new skill and love the pride you get from doing it yourself. I DIYed a lot of stuff on mine that was waaay out of my experience level. Other people are trying to do it on a budget, thats fine too. But its the people who think its easy that get themselves into trouble. But good luck to you in whatever you choose to do man.

Sweatlock

iTrader: (1)

I’d say get the proper crimping tool (I believe Eastwood sells them) and go for it. You’ll never know unless you try. Post photos on here of your work when you’re done. Best of luck!

GMP318

I've done a door skin before. It's not easy. Needs to be aligned perfectly or else when you install the door you may have the issue of the panel lines not lining up.
If you have never done it before either pay a body shop to do it or just get a complete rust free door.