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So here I go. I take my 4300 mile 92 RS to replace the original tires. I show the employee where the lift arms need to be placed and it's on camera me showing him. I look at my car days later while getting ready for a car show and notice the bottom of the passenger fender by the door is pulled inward and not flush with the door. I look underneath and see the pinch weld is bent and the same on the other side. I called the shop and told them. Went to a body shop and got an estimate for $670. The tire shop manager said the damage was already there and he wasn't paying for it. But he offered to pound back the damage that he said they didn't cause I guess with a mallet. I contact the owner and he is agreeing with his manager of course. I'm devastated. Has anybody on here ever been through this. I'm getting the car fixed regardless but "I WANT BLOOD" I need some legal advice and help if possible. I live near Pittsburgh PA.
Good point. And you're probably right but man do I want some JUSTICE! The manager is so arrogant. And to think I picked them because they said they could do the job without marking my wheels. Wheels got through it without a scratch but my car is F'd up!
To minimize damages just take the wheels an tire off the car yourself.
This is probably about your best bet here. I often fret about taking my Firehawk anywhere to be worked on for things that I don’t feel comfortable doing myself. And this is why I haven’t.
If all all else fails, nothing like flaming them on FB or Google or wherever. May not get you right money wise but people read those things and may prevent someone else’s misfortune dealing with shady individuals.
$670 of body work? LOL. The body shop is going to take a mallet to it. The estimate clearly doesn't involve much work at today's body work pricing. That's about what it costs to have a bumper repainted these days.....You'll spend more fighting these tire people. Just pay for the repair and consider it lesson learned - don't let anyone touch the car unless you are standing there watching. And if they won't let you - go somewhere else.
In general - it's advisable to not take antique cars to shops unless they specialize in your particular model, etc. And even then - you best be made of money. As a shop owner that works on some pretty weird, rare, and low mileage vehicles I can tell you it's NOT CHEAP.
Bought tires from Belle tire. Told him the size I needed and he said 80's Camaro or Firebird? I said ya and I'll bring the tires and rims back to get tires mounted. He said that was a good idea as those cars are tricky. Me thingking...Not really it's a matter of getting on your hands and knees and looking at what the freak you are doing. At least he admitted it was a good idea to not let them lift it. I'll say this. It's a 30 years old car and many of the guys working there were born after it was built so they are probably clueless.
So here I go. I take my 4300 mile 92 RS to replace the original tires. I show the employee where the lift arms need to be placed and it's on camera me showing him. I look at my car days later while getting ready for a car show and notice the bottom of the passenger fender by the door is pulled inward and not flush with the door. I look underneath and see the pinch weld is bent and the same on the other side. I called the shop and told them. Went to a body shop and got an estimate for $670. The tire shop manager said the damage was already there and he wasn't paying for it. But he offered to pound back the damage that he said they didn't cause I guess with a mallet. I contact the owner and he is agreeing with his manager of course. I'm devastated. Has anybody on here ever been through this. I'm getting the car fixed regardless but "I WANT BLOOD"
I need some legal advice and help if possible.
Sorry for your plight, but yours is not the only such instance, not by a long shot.
You could take them to Small Claims Court, but you'll lose (and subsequently be required to pay Court Costs out of your own pocket) since you have no hard evidence. The fact your car is damaged now means nothing in a court of law without proof of who did the damage and when.
Take a deep breath, chalk it up to a hard lesson learned and move on with your life.
Posters on this site need to realize that a run-of-the-mill repair shop is just about the last place on Earth to take a 30+-year-old, valuable car to have work done on it. This forum sees horror stories posted of repairs gone bad almost by the day. Either find a specialist that works on hot rods---and who has a sterling reputation---or else learn to work on the car yourself.
Thanks for all the responses brothers. The owner stated he saw the video of me instructing the employee and that I can watch it but don't know what difference it makes when he already is not claiming responsibility. I'm going to contact American Collectors insurance and file a claim. My comprehensive is 250 but I can't wait to see how this goes. Luckily the body shop I went to has a couple of F body owners that work there and the guy that did my estimate is an old co worker and good dude. It's a clean shop that does good work. I need to find my Zen place now because I could really F some shiz up. I gotta be careful I'm a corrections officer and I need my job to buy more cars lol. I'll post pics later tonight after the car show.
Man that sucks. Luckily I KNOW everyone personally that works on my car and they respect me as well as I do them. This kind of business practice in the US is becoming a thing of the past though I'm afraid.
It sucks that they did that, but a lot of 3rd gens have those tabs bent by improper jacking. Can I save you 670 bucks? Put duct tape on those tabs to protect the paint and get one or two vice-grips and bend them back. That's what the body shop is going to do.
I appreciate it. The fender on my passenger side got bent inward on the bottom. Plus I really need the insurance to go after the shop for their money. It's good news for that shop manager I'm a god fearing man!
I always get freaked out about this stuff and this is my nightmare as well.. I have only had my car on a lift a couple times... one was by a mechanic friend of mine and I was there to make sure he knew what to use for jack points.. The door gaps opened up a little when the car went up and I sort of panicked for a second but he said all convertibles do that.. He said get sub frame connectors to stiffen it up and it will help the flex.. He put it down and it was fine... phew!
Second time was getting the exhaust fixed... It was a custom exhaust place and I made sure the guy knew where the jack points were again and he really took his time making sure he was doing it right... They do custom work on a lot of classic cars though... He let me hang out under the car and check it out so that was cool...
Tire shops seem to really be strict about not letting people back there... I don’t look forward to tire shops... The guys are usually moving fast and banging out jobs... I think the Town Fair Tire close to me seems to have a pretty cool, reassuring manager that did a good job on my Tahoe LTZ.. I’d still worry with the IROC or the Corvette...
Maybe if you don’t want to take all your wheels off and bring them down you could get to know the manager of the shop and find out a day/time where they are slower and let them know that you are particular about the car... Maybe even put tape on the acceptable jack points...
It’s always been amazing how people who work on cars look under thirdgens and get confused... it’s not reassuring..
I’d say not to go through insurance because it might show up on Carfax as structural damage.. That sounds like a low quote from a body shop.. maybe they could code it as vandalism and you could document the situation to explain to a future buyer of the car..
Plus I really need the insurance to go after the shop for their money. It's good news for that shop manager I'm a god fearing man!
2-minute repair - BOTH SIDES - using a 2 large adjustable wrenches,.... Put a towel over the wrenches before starting if you don't want to scratch the paint.
$670 of body work? LOL.
$300 up on the lift,.... $300 down off the lift,.... $76 dollars to use the 2 wrenches for 2 minutes !
I'm not advising for or against it but if you pursue legal action because you have proof than you would be using small claims court which is very different than general court room proceedings. Small claims court (if you have some sort of evidence) isn't expensive, time consuming or a waste of money. In the majority of states small claims court is for up to $5000 in damages and does not allow for hired lawyers. It's literally you with your evidence on one side and the owner and manager on the other. You can't sue for time lost or legal fees and neither can he.
As far as posting negative reviews or flaming on social media goes- don't do itunless you have evidence to back up your claims. Especially if you have posted negative reviews of multiple companies online. A first year law student could probably successfully sue for defamation at that point. There is a trend of professional offices suing former customers for bad reviews. If you have no evidence and it comes down to your word Vs theirs and they have four other people/witnesses on their side you could be up a defamation suit creek.
Do you have any underside shots? I know with my Classic insurance coverage they wanted good quality underbody shots. If you don't then I would go out this weekend and take a few dozen pictures of the entire car from multiple angles. The first thing out of any person or business you ever make a claim against is always "that was already there" so you need to be able to refute it. I learned a ton about small claims court, laws, lawyers, insurances, claim processes, reports, valuation tools, the whole shebang after my car fire a few years ago.
I would flame their shop online if they did this for sure. Negative feedback can really hurt a company online. But If they loaded with many positive feedback's, it would do much harm. Again, I would only do that if I had proof they messed your car up.
I took my on 2005 into a shop for new tires, and when I got it back a day later the engine light came. Sensor issue with my transmission that I found when getting the code. The terminal was pulled off and left loose. Only way to get it was under the car. I called them and told them what happened, they said not us. So I posted it on a review about them and got a call from the manager wanting to discuss it. I flipped him off.
Some shops are like that, figure most people don't know much about their cars, then bang them on a return they cause. Seen it too many times.
2-minute repair - BOTH SIDES - using a 2 large adjustable wrenches,.... Put a towel over the wrenches before starting if you don't want to scratch the paint.
I agree with John, Did this on my fenders before i painted them. It sucked the fenders in and realigned them.
pay attention to what people are telling you,never allow ANYONE to jack up your vehicle without you there HAND HOLDING ,coddling,drawing diagrams and guiding them along the way like they are either 4-5 yrs old or have a single digit I.Q.i cant really think of anyone i trust with my car other than me,there's a lot of very inexperienced part changers out in the wild charging top rate to do things not worth $5 an hour.any fool can buy new parts and change everything,i miss real mechanics who had a brain,common sense and an idea of wtf they were doing.dying breed im afraid.
little story:i had an exhaust leak on a daily beater(in Canada a beater is just that and driven in all nasty weather)
i took it for an estimate to fix the leak.the "tech"(extreme sarcasm alert) came back with an estimate of $1600
i was appalled,then stated" i said give me an estimate to fix the leak,not replace the entire single exhaust front to back"
i took it to a little shop near my house and out the door was $50 to replace an 6-8" section of pipe and a couple quick welds/clamps.
the more pretty plastic covers ,sensors and doohickeys we get on new vehicles,the less we are involved with the vehicle maintenance,
upkeep and repair process.i think my 2016 buick is the last vehicle i will own newer than a 2000 model year.
Last edited by 1986BANDIT; 09-19-2019 at 08:10 PM.
just bend them back,if you can adjust an adjustable wrench or reposition the jaws on channel locks you are golden.
i just did this last weekend on a parts car that i removed the fenders from.irony is BOTH TABS WERE FOLDED OVER
i wouldn't even waste my breath explaining this to the idiot who did it,its a 5 minute job.
if you think the fender is pulled in,remove the bolt from this connection ,straighten the tab.
then gently pull out the fender at the bottom and straighten the fenders tab as well when satisfied then
put the bolt back in.
get used to working on your cars,it offers an immense personal pleasure
knowing you can do something the average mechanic would fail at miserably.
Last edited by 1986BANDIT; 09-19-2019 at 07:58 PM.
if you are getting new tires,you definitely cant let anyone do this without personally witnessing the entire thing.
funny thing is these morons charge a massive amount for inept,craptacular work a blind paraplegic could
do perfectly.(not meaning to offend the blind or disabled) just the point they could do a far better job than
the average "tire tech" or "mechanic" even with a severe disability.
agreed,it really isnt hard....It does take more than just bending the pinchweld back though .this car is insanely low miles though(4000? really,wow).i wouldn't let a soul touch this if it was mine.
Last edited by 1986BANDIT; 12-27-2019 at 02:54 PM.
So here I go. I take my 4300 mile 92 RS to replace the original tires. I show the employee where the lift arms need to be placed and it's on camera me showing him. I look at my car days later while getting ready for a car show and notice the bottom of the passenger fender by the door is pulled inward and not flush with the door. I look underneath and see the pinch weld is bent and the same on the other side. I called the shop and told them. Went to a body shop and got an estimate for $670. The tire shop manager said the damage was already there and he wasn't paying for it. But he offered to pound back the damage that he said they didn't cause I guess with a mallet. I contact the owner and he is agreeing with his manager of course. I'm devastated. Has anybody on here ever been through this. I'm getting the car fixed regardless but "I WANT BLOOD" I need some legal advice and help if possible. I live near Pittsburgh PA.
Same thing happened to me with my 89 formula. I caught them doing it and after quite a few go arounds (and me perfectly matching their jack to the dents), they paid. Most modern cars can be lifted by the pinch weld flange, but these guys didn't get the memo that older ones couldn't . I have a 2009 Solstice coupe that have specific pucks for lifting. They scoffed and snickered when I said to use them but they complied.
Same thing happened to me with my 89 formula. I caught them doing it and after quite a few go arounds (and me perfectly matching their jack to the dents), they paid. Most modern cars can be lifted by the pinch weld flange, but these guys didn't get the memo that older ones couldn't . I have a 2009 Solstice coupe that have specific pucks for lifting. They scoffed and snickered when I said to use them but they complied.
it seems these fools are set in their ways of doing things wrong even though we help them understand the right way
to do it .they ignore anything that conflicts with their foolish notion of doing things fast,easy,sloppy and WRONG.
my front fenders are bulged out slightly from incorrect jacking as well.i need to get my umi sfc's installed asap to
avoid this but until then im going to only do my own jacking instead of relying on idiots who refuse to THINK before
doing something wrong PURPOSELY and refusing to ****ing listen to those of us who actually KNOW how to do
things properly.
Just get a vice grip, straighten it out yourself and call it a day. The fender usually straightens out when the tab is bent back. When I had new tires put on my TTA, I brought just the rims, and then I watched the guy dismount and mount them. Don't let them jack up your car or put it on a lift.
straightening the piece of metal they stupidly and incorrectly destroy by refusing to properly lift these cars doesn't magically make the fenders pop back out,the idea of that is ridiculous and kind of outlandish tbh.why would you think straightening the pinch weld would fix the bowed fenders?you need to pull the entire thing back into position undo then reconnect the fender bolt at the bottom and possibly straighten the bow of the fender out.it definitely is not as simple or effective as you suggest.
at the bare minimum you need two people TO PROPERLY REALIGN THE FENDER
Last edited by 1986BANDIT; 12-27-2019 at 02:55 PM.
straightening the piece of metal they stupidly and incorrectly destroy by refusing to properly lift these cars doesn't magically make the fenders pop back out,the idea of that is ridiculous and kind of outlandish tbh.why would you think straightening the pinch weld would fix the bowed fenders?you need to pull the entire thing back into position undo then reconnect the fender bolt at the bottom and possibly straighten the bow of the fender out.it definitely is not as simple or effective as you suggest.
at the bare minimum you need two people and some serious luck and patience.
Have you tried it?
When you bend the pinch weld back, the fender will move back into position. I have done mine. And it went back. If it doesn't go totally back, loosen 1 bolt, reposition and done. 2 People? lol
Last edited by 82tarecaro; 12-27-2019 at 06:33 AM.
Have you tried it?
When you bend the pinch weld back, the fender will move back into position. I have done mine. And it went back. If it doesn't go totally back, loosen 1 bolt, reposition and done. 2 People? lol
I gave this post a thumbs up because yes indeed I have done this repair several times on various third gens over the years that had been improperly lifted , and despite 1986BANDIT's protestations , YES IT DOES pull the fender back in line with the door .
PS , a visegrip with the wide clamping jaws does a great job of straightening out the very bottom of the pinch weld where it gets wavy from being crushed , after a regular visegrip has been used to bend it back into the proper position .
think carefully...your damage was obviously insignificant so bending it back did something,i bent mine back and it did absolutely nothing.
the 3-4 other cars with this issue that ive worked on and tried to repair,DID NOTHING without doing more than bending it back.
the reason i mentioned this is because that's what it requires to be corrected,different scenario.
if the position of the sheet-metal is displaced and pushed upward the fender will still be bowed out even if the pinch weld is straightened out
if your pinch weld seam is a little bent your idea will probably/maybe/possibly work,unfortunately that isn't the same for everyone,is it?
Last edited by 1986BANDIT; 12-27-2019 at 02:51 PM.
Same thing happened to me at PepBoys.Had $1600 worth if new tires installed two weeks ago. Both fenders are bent outward no longer aligned with the doors 2013 CTS Coupe with 10000 miles on it. Of course they deny any responsibility. Mad as hell here in Pgh. Notice that the left front fender no longer lines up with door.
Same thing happened to the 87 Firebird my mother used to drive. My father took it to get tires. I got home from work later in the afternoon and noticed the left front fender protuding outwards at the door.
I mentioned it to my father. He looked at it too and said you are right. He took it back to the tire shop. The manager confronted the worker who put the tire's on; the worker fessed up to it stating that he had
placed the lift in the position. They made it good and paid to have the fender fixed. The job came out perfect and the fender is at the same level as the door skin.
I'm an **** ***, and I WATCH them like a hawk any time I have to take the car to let someone else do something to it.
I even tell people, I'll put it on the lift for you. Its a Cammed 6spd that bucks like a bronco.
Course, the only time it goes to a shop is if I need an alignment, cause that's one of the things I just can't do in a parking lot or driveway.
Watching people try and drive my car is both amusing and horrifying. Amusing because they should be glad I didn't install that 13lb flywheel. Horrifying because of the thought about what they are doing to much clutch. I took my car away from one shop after watching some pimple faced kid who said "I can drive stick". No, punk, no, you'd definitely can't drive stick.
You have to check everything shops do to your car. Even routine maintenance.
I used to go to a Monro Muffler & Brake shop. And I actually thought they did good work. It was a locally owned franchise. The guys would stay late to get my car done, would always drive me to and from home while working on my car. I had a lot of confidence in them.
I had a 2004 Cadillac CTS sedan. Got new brakes at Monro. About a year, maybe two later, I failed my state inspection. My frame was rotting through. It was right under where they would fill brake fluid. The frame had deteriorated to the point where it would likely soon break. What happened was that they spilled brake fluid on the frame and didn't clean it up. Brake fluid won't dry up and actually draws in moisture, so my fame had a spot that had rusted almost through.
My car failed inspection and I thought it might be a total loss. Fortunately, it ended up being repairable. It had 100K miles on it at the time, but was still in great shape. I went to Cadillac to complain. It was completely past warranty, but I said that this just wasn't normal. Frames shouldn't rust though, and the entire rest of the car was free of rust. GM actually agreed to covered most of the repair cost. I think the total bill was like $3,000 and I paid $500. Kept that car past 150K miles and never had an issue with it.
The theory that it was spilled brake fluid came from the body shop at Cadillac. Of course, Monro wouldn't admit it and I had no way of proving it. It was really cool of GM to cover any of the cost.
07-24-2019, 11:19 PM
I Do This With Any Vehicle,I Don't Trust Tire Shops. 
