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I always figured they were there to make up for the big cut out in the radiator support for the radiator itself. if that front end flexes its gonna bend at the weakest point(the big square cut out) so by putting two braces connecting diagonal corners you get some rigidity back when it does flex.
Why do you want to remove them? are they in the way of an aftermarket oil/trans cooler? if you have no real reason to remove them then I'd just let them be.
Well I have a knight rider nose on the front of my car and when I am at highway speed there doesn't seem to be enough air flow into the radiator. I was going to build something would force all air from a deflector below the radiator to only go through the radiator. Those cross braces would make that more difficult but I could do it with them I guess.
In all seriousness... The original front bumper had baffling and ducting to force air through the radiator. You removed that, or someone did, and in the pursuit of building a rolling movie prop, the cooling was cast aside.
Without knowing how the goofy front bumper was designed, it's possible that you might not be able to fix the cooling at all. Removing more factory design features isn't going to make things better. You can start by blocking off the left and right sides of the radiator as far forward as you can. Because right now any air directed up by the air dam isn't being forced through the radiator. You could also add a baffle from the top of the radiator support down to at least the impact bumper, and consider adding another piece from the impact bumper to the lower edge of the front bumper. That'd bring you closer to the original cooling scheme, without sacrificing structural integrity.
Your car is an 84? Did it have a factory bumper with grilles and no ground effects? If so, there is no baffling or special ducting. It's an impact bar, honeycomb crash absorber and bumper cover that let's very little air though. Your car is a bottom feeder with a clutch fan. Where is your upper and lower radiator shrouds? Electric fan instead?? Also, is the factory air dam still installed? Which impact bar do you have? They changed them at some point. If you have the one that has gaping holes all the way across it, then the knight rider bumper actually allows a ton of air straight through. If its the smooth impact bar with no holes, then less air gets through. Those braces shouldn't be in the way of anything. Neither this nor the air dam will help you in traffic though.
When you install the fiberglass bumper, the only thing you should be removing is the factory urethane bumper cover and crash absorber, and honestly you can trim that, paint if black and keep it on there if you wanted. Doesn't hurt!
I'd make sure you have good coolant flow, a good fan and factory air dam in place and go from there. There's several ways to make these run cool. More often than not, every thirdgen I've owned always came down to coolant problems such as passage blockage in the intake manifold, stopped up radiator and sticking thermostat or worn out clutch fan or any combination of those.
For my setup, I went simple. My 82 has NO air dam at all. I run a flex fan with the factory upper and lower radiator shrouds and run a nice 195-200 all summer even in traffic. It runs even cooler at highway speeds.
In contrast, my 89 base Firebird is bone stock in the front with a smooth factory bumper cover with the bumper pads, lower air dam and clutch fan and it runs cool. No air gets through the bumper cover and there's no special ducting on that car.
Kinda weird that the GM diagrams show all kinds of "baffles" and deflectors to duct air through the radiator. I could be wrong, maybe they didn't start using them until after 1984.
I have multiple ‘83 and ‘84 Trans Ams and none of them have baffling. The car in the picture above is a late ‘80s car. It has the front and rear side hood vents. Not sure what year those showed up but early ‘80s pontiacs didn’t have those.
Look again. It's an all encompassing diagram covering 82-87. Notice how several of the parts have the years and options they are related to in parentheses? Here's the missing page, I omitted it since I didn't feel it was necessary, but it does detail what the image applies to.
There were a lot of "mods" done to my car before I bought. The beauty of buying a 30 year old car from a guy in Pacoima. There were even photos of a previous owners kids in the drivers side sun visor. My car never had ground effects.
The only items I took off my car for the knight rider nose were 46 and 47 from that Pontiac diagram. Would it help to install the baffles that are listed on the same diagram?
I have a mishimoto 3 row rad "drop in" and a dorman fan that is sealed against the rad. 185 degree thermostat and an electric fan switch at 195 degrees. Honestly the highest temp my car has run is 200. On the highway at 65 I would think that there would be enough air for the fan to turn off, however it doesn't. I know this might become a cooling discussion but I was curious
I'm not sure what cars actually got all of the radiator baffling, but my 86 trans am did not have any of it and never did, but a 87 trans am I parted did have all the baffling.
For the OP, does your car have the air dam attached to the bottom of the core support? If it's not there you will not have airflow to the radiator and it will overheat at speed.
Leave the cross braces alone, they help keep the core support square.
I'm not sure what cars actually got all of the radiator baffling, but my 86 trans am did not have any of it and never did, but a 87 trans am I parted did have all the baffling.
For the OP, does your car have the air dam attached to the bottom of the core support? If it's not there you will not have airflow to the radiator and it will overheat at speed.
Leave the cross braces alone, they help keep the core support square.
I have built my own air dam under the core support. It is angled forward towards the front of the car. Would the GM one here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/84-90-Trans...item1c5b20ded3
be that much better? I know its for a car with ground effects, which mine doesn't have nor did it come with them. I would love to see a photo of a completely stock Trans Am and the air dam it has.
Especially the "expert purist-know it all" long time members.
50% of the "snark" is in the reader's imagination. The rest is a combination of disbelief, horror, exhaustion, and humor resulting from the unique experience of being a "long time member".
It's a bit sad to be judged as an "expert purist-know it all" for trying to contribute, ironically by a drive-by commentator with nothing to contribute to the thread.
Originally Posted by sjorgens
I have built my own air dam under the core support. It is angled forward towards the front of the car. Would the GM one be that much better?
Probably not. The air dam doesn't need to be angled, the stock piece is completely vertical normally.
What would help most is blocking off the sides and top to encourage the air being forced up by the air dam into flowing through the radiator. Right now that air can spill around the radiator. With proper baffling in place, the fan doesn't have to work nearly as hard. Also, it might help to make sure the radiator is 'sealed' to the radiator support. If the A/C condenser isn't there, airflow will be able to spill past on either side rather than through the radiator.
Probably not. The air dam doesn't need to be angled, the stock piece is completely vertical normally.
What would help most is blocking off the sides and top to encourage the air being forced up by the air dam into flowing through the radiator. Right now that air can spill around the radiator. With proper baffling in place, the fan doesn't have to work nearly as hard. Also, it might help to make sure the radiator is 'sealed' to the radiator support. If the A/C condenser isn't there, airflow will be able to spill past on either side rather than through the radiator.
Yeah I was going to build a baffle and seal exactly as you state. Never knew that GM made one so that makes it a hell of a lot easier and also means I'll keep those braces in there.
I'd love to see a photo of the stock setup on a car if at all possible.
That diagram you posted really helped with understanding what else "could or should" be there.
Were the baffles labeled 55 and 56 items for '87 and later? Side baffles yes. But those others in '84? Possibly not. Can't say from experience, only a brief look at the data sheets.
The (1987) on 55, & 56 mean those parts apply to 1987 only. 88-90 are on another page, and it wouldn't surprise me if they used those same parts, or different parts.
Really 55 & 56 aren't as important as the other parts, as long as #70 is in place. With the side pieces in place, the air should be forced through the radiator.
It's also worth mentioning, that cars without factory A/C usually have side fillers between the radiator core and the back of the radiator support opening, to fill the gap where the A/C condenser would normally be. Later cars also have foam rubber seals on both sides of the radiator to keep the air flow organized.
Best place to find photos of the various parts is to scour Ebay. That's about the only time you're likely to find real photos of seldom seen parts.
02-04-2018, 01:33 PM
