NiG

HI

Well, I don't know if this is a politically correct sentence, but it seems to be that the Camaro is way higher in terms of success, appreciation and selling numbers compared to the Firebird.

Is this a correct assumption? If so, why?

THANKS!

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Personally I like both of the 1st gens, the 2nd gen birds, 3rd gen Camaro's and 4th gen birds again.

Now that there is no longer a bird, I'm back to Camaro's in the like column.

87350gtanj

I would honestly have to say it all comes down to personal preference. And just because PONTIAC is no longer doesn't mean anything thats why there are so many new CAMARO's that have been transformed into Firebird/Trans-Am's. I would never bail out of the PONTIAC scene just because there no longer I myself think that the Firebird/Trans am is the better of the two just my.

83Z28/L69

I just don't like the headlights. Just another thing to break and take go fast money away.

I am and will always will be a Camaro guy. I will dabble with a Formy here and there, but my heart belongs to the little furry animal that eats mustangs! LOL

jharrison5

To me it all depends on the years. I'm not really a fan of 1st gens anymore because they are all over the place and everyone seems to have one. I liked all of the 2nd gen birds but didn't like the camaro after '73. All of the 3rd, 4th, and 5th so far have been ok.

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

I have always liked the camaro better until the 4th generation came out. I like the 4th generation trans am way better than the 4th generation camaro.

Veaceonee

iTrader: (1)

Camaro= Racey, must go fast, get there quick

Firebird= Touring, just sit back, relax and cruise.

Just my opinion

NiG

OK

so it is just a matter of personal liking. I thought that maybe the T/A was mechanically and from the point of view of reliability, inferior to Camaro. Camaros and such more common compared to T/A, as far as the third gen is concerned.

FirebirdUSX

Trans Ams are the better camaro ...better look ,better interior ...even better special editions *see 89 Turbo Trans Am* plus TA appeared in more movies.

I remember in the 90s I saw a testdrive (i think its still on youtube) where they tested a mustang ,a camaro and a Firehawk (the special edition Firebird).Firehawk was the fastest there but they didn't picked it as winner because it looked too complex for their tastes.

bryan623

My first car I fell in love with as a child (back in the 80's) was when my neighbor next door got himself a brand new I-ROC Z Camaro. I love both cars. They are both sexy looking machines and if I could I would own one of each. Had a chance to get a 87 I-ROC Z, but the guy sold it before I could buy it. So I got the 89 GTA instead. (would have still got both since it would have only costed me $3600 for both cars).

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

bite your tongue Nig!!! Are you trying to start a WAR on here?!!

I love them all. Personal preference. I love my T/A's but I sure seen a lot of Z's on here that I would LOVE to own!

Restrorob

iTrader: (7)

I've owned two each 2nd gen Camaros and Birds over the years, when I went look'n to build another car I chose my GTA over another Camaro. I did this because Pontiac is no longer and I've yet to see another in my four surrounding counties, Camaros are dime a dozen so to speak...... And I just like the smooth lined front end over the Camaro......

Mirror Image

iTrader: (2)

I have had both more camaros and birds but loved all of them but once you get past the skin they are the same I would pick the firebird because of the interior

lb9 GTA

This is funny. The cars are mechanically identical (aside from the TTA). One of the reasons you see more Camaros than Firebirds is because more Camaros were sold. A lot of that I think was due to the fact that the Firebird was always more expensive than a comparable Camaro when bought new. To put some perspective on it, the IROC-Z was built with the mustang gt in mind as its main competition. However the GTA was intended to be an alternative to the BMW 6 series.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Every model Trans Am ever put out was in my opinion a good looking car.1993-2002 Camaros were dog ugly! They were fast though I will give em that.

w0lfpack91

two sides to the coin. i have had a 1987 chevy Camaro Z28 IROC T-Top auto 350. loved that car i hot rodded the hell out of it and it never quit running. on the flip side i now have a 1988 pontiac firebird Base model with the 305 and T-tops. my bird was wrecked when i got it and had overheating problems but i love the car. out of the two i enjoy the firebird more than the camaro even though the camaro was so much nicer and more powerful, the Firebird has nicer lines sleeker, 10x more Sexy, better interior design. i have since fixed the major wreck damage and it is back to being a strieght bodied car. once i am able to make my way back to AZ ill get my camaro's old tuned port injection 388 out of my grandfathers garage and it will be put in my bird.

another side of the argument almost all camaro guys argue that camaros are better due to their exposed headlights and functional grille VS the firebirds Flip up headlights and closed in nose cap, honestly so long as the air dam is in place the nose cap don't hurt the car at all and so long as you take care of and oil the headlight motors regularly they will never fail.

NiG

thanks the EXACT thing I think. I personally find the T/A design 100x ways better and more elegant than Camaro. Popup hedhlights are cool too, rare today and so exotic.
Dashboards are ugly both of Camaro and T/A however

Do you think the air flow could be a problem?

w0lfpack91

uh yes airflow on the T/A is a major issue. like i said so long as you dont rip off the air dam the car will never overheat. but once its gone you can't get over 35MPH with out major overheat problems. replacements are difficult to come by the only place that i know still has them is hawkes Third Gen and the OEM replacement i got cost about $100 USD but my bird has not got over 198 since so well worth the $100

NiG

sorry, what is the air dam??

thanks!

NiG

Is this one? What do I have to check about it?

Thanks!

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

You need to check and make sure it is STILL THERE! (AirDam)

You gotta remember, GM had done a lot of testing on these 2 cars; air flow, cooling, thermostat size, water flow throughout the engine, radiator capacity's for optimum cooling and performance, emissions, and so on.

If the car is in check, and everything is in place, in tip top running condition, and not "made to just run good enough", you will be fine.

I think you're trying too hard to make an issue out of something that is a lot like common sense. If the car checks out, in good shape, solid body, parts not held on by Duct Tape or falling off behind you as you drive, Buy the car.
It's not that hard.
If you are in doubt, and are looking for 100% definitive answers on EVERYTHING about the Camaro and Firebird line, you're outta luck, it won't happen.
This goes for ALL car lines.

JMO ONLY!

NiG

Yeah, when we put the car on the lift I precisely remember it had all three air damn(s). Or, at least, I remember I saw three pieces: right, center, left. They was not an unique piece so two small gaps are present.
Since I didn't know they were so important, I'll check them better

THANKS

Pontiac_Pete

The first 3rd gen I remember seeing was KITT. The "first" 3rd gen I have owned was when I was 3, it was a KITT pedal car. My first driver was a '88 L03 Formula and I own/have owned 7 other 'Birds (Including a 4th Gen). I have always liked the more aggressive look of a Firebird, plus everyone and their mom has a Camaro (same goes for the Mustang). IMO Pontiac was always better on styling and options. On another note, can you imagine the Bandit or Micheal Knight in a Camaro? *Shudders* me neither.

90 GTA Black

I picked a 90 GTA for it's lines and leather interior all in black. Trans Am seats are always better with Recaros being available on some special editions.

NiG

That's my personal opinion too

WTR388

Love how sleek Trans Am's are... Plus I was mystified when I saw Smokey and the Bandit as a kid... So I'm turning my 87 T/A in to my version of a Bandit car. This car will always be a mix of speed, and refinement (nicer paint, nice interior, everything belongs)

I am planning on taking a 3rd gen Camaro, striping it down, full cage and setting it up with road racing in mind. Flat grey paint job (like our Canadian F-18s), and nothing but what is needed for the purpose of the car, but it will be raced in the Newfoundland Targa hopefully.

I honestly do like the T/A more simply because of the lines of the car.

blktransam

Exactly! Personally I think Camaros look cheesy compared to Trans ams.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

I like both. Just depends on the years, style, colors, etc.

67-69 = firebird
70-73 camaro and firebird about the same
77-78 firebird
79-81 camaro
82-84 firebird
85-87 or so camaro
88-92 camaro and firebird about the same.
4th gen I like the ram air firebird trans ams

blktransam

True.

loopy

iTrader: (1)

I think Night Rider ruined trans ams for me. Camaro all the way in 3rd Gen styles. Love the shape of the Camaro guards, hood and front spoiler.

Trans am would be my pick of 2nd Gen. Loved the smokey and the bandit car.

1st generation, I would love to own either Camaro or Pontiac


I agree with dmccain 4th gen Camaro are HIDEOUS

Kevinfirebird

iTrader: (22)

I have owned 2 third gen camaros and have owned 3 Firebirds & 2 trans ams. I will stay with the firebird/trans am. Like them way better. I now own a 92 firebird kitt car. Knight rider is what made like the trans am.

I have own one 4th gen camaro and two 4th gen trans am. I like the trans am better.

ledman66

iTrader: (2)

I have owned a 1970 Firebird 400, a 1983 Trans-AM T-top and a 1983 Z28 at the same time, and now have a 1988 IROC-Z. The Trans AM looked hot, but was slow thanks to the 305 CFI...the Z28 looked a little more boring, but, was upgraded with a 350, and was a true sleeper, paint was faded, stock wheels, but was so much more of a car than the T/A IMO.

I remember trying to race this guy with a '85 Mustang GT 5.0 in my T/A, this was in the mid '90's, and he smoked me...I brought back my Z28 and he laughed at me telling me I was back for more humiliation in another 305 car, as he did not know the engine was upgraded to a 350, but needless to say, with all his mods, my stock GM crate motor blew his mustang out of the water, and he was embarrassed to say the least.
He learned his lesson, to not judge a book by its cover...you never know what lies under that hood
I always loved the style of the Firebird/Trans AM. Knight Rider did it for me.
My buddy in HS got a new '82 silver Firebird V6 and he suddenly became the most coolest kid in school because of that car.
The front end, sleek hood line, and just the name Trans AM/Firebird says "look at me, I have a cool car" lol...I love Pontiac, GM/Chevy and MOPAR vehicles, as thats what I have always (mostly) owned in my life along with a few Nissans, but I have to say, while i love the Trans AM very much, a Camaro just oozes total coolness and just says, "yup, I have a Camaro IROC-Z, and it IS badass".
It is a hard decision to make...and I want both again lol and would not hesitate to but another 3rd gen T/A, but at the end of the day, the Camaro IROC-Z puts a big smile on my face seeing it parked in my carport

NiG

Did you own some mid-high profile Nissan cars? Are they better than 3rd gen?

ledman66

iTrader: (2)

I had a 2001 altima SE sedan 4 cylinder lowered with momo wheels but I liked my 2008 altima coupe allot the car was totally loaded but no faster than my 3rd gen...although it was a 4 cylinder 170hp. Also had a 2004 frontier. That was a great truck except the gas mileage was terrible for a v6. 20 mpg on the freeway driving 70mph.

my daily driver now is a 2013 dodge charger and I absolutely love that car. I've put about 4k worth of mods into it. It has the 3.6L (220 cui) pentastar v6 5 speed auto. Never had it on the dyno but my butt dyno says guessing 320bhp. 292bhp is stock so with exhaust mods and a tuner with a custom tune and CAI made a huge difference. I get 30 mpg on the freeway average but I've gotten up to 34mpg. I get about 18mpg around town with a heavy foot

But in the end...I totally love my 3rd gen. Brings back allot of memories for me. I'm really happy I bought it even with the base iroc-z L03 motor I get thumbs up every time I drive it!

So to answer your question...I wouldn't say the Nissans were necessarily better than my 3rd gen but they served their purpose for my use at the time. I was actually thinking of getting a 3rd gen trans am too like I used to have to complete the set once again. I had an 83 z28 and 83 trans am at the same time both daily drivers back in the mid '90's. Sshhh don't tell my wife lol...anyone got a gta for sale cheap??

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

My 1st legal car (had a drag car before I could drive on streets) was a 1985 nissan 300zx. Wasn't a bad car but wasn't great either.

Non turbo, V6, 5 speed, T-top. Got 16 mpg (which then at .99 cents a gal wasn't bad, now it would suck.) , had no low end torque, but did have massive top end speed for what it was. It did handle really well, but of course the IRS helped with that.

I will say I liked the T-tops on it much better than the third gens. The tops NEVER leaked a drop of water or air.

I drove the car for 50K miles (it had 167K on it when I got it) before I blew it up. Slung a rod through the block. During that 50K miles only repairs needed was a brake master cyl., front brake pads, spark plugs and wires.


I wouldn't say the car was any better than a third gen though.

NiG

I was noticing that 3rd gen cars dont seem so appreciated among the sports cars. Perhaps I'm wrong (as I hope). So I was wondering whether the 80s-90s japanese cars are better (as I think), and if yes, how much better they are.

Nissan has some great sports cars. I could have bought a 1992 300zx instead a 89 GTA for some extra money. Perhaps I would have had a much better and reliable car?

sure?

ledman66

iTrader: (2)

Any older car you buy will have issues, Japanese, American, but mainly, it all comes down to your personal preference. I have always wanted a early 90's 300zx myself, and had the chance to buy a few...but the cars were beat bad, abused, also like many 3rd gen cars, so you have to find that diamond in the ruff so to speak, one that was not abused, just driven, like the one I got, one owner, 88 IROC-Z 305 car, unmolested original car. It is not perfect, and needs some minor work, but I am happy with my purchase, it's not a DD, so I am not too worried if something breaks, I can fix it at my leisure, which is the fun part! I found it before I found a decent 300Z, and I was actually looking for a 67-72 dodge dart!

BUT, to actually say one is better than the other well that is a whole different story. ALL car manufacturers have quality control issues, so you can talk about what you think is better all day long, it really doesn't matter in the end, as long as YOU are happy with what you bought and drive is all that matters.
A 90HP 4 banger or a 500HP torque monster V-8, it does not matter as long as you are happy with it. You bought a GTA...I personally would LOVE to have a GTA
Are you having issues with it as a DD? as you are hinting it is NOT a reliable car?

GXP

Well since I'm only 19 and when I first got my license, third gens were at the point in their lives where you saw a lot around here and they were probably at their lowest value. I've begun to see that third gens are going up more in value. I got mine in May of last year for $1,200 with 180k miles 305 bone stock..I was able to DD it without any work besides a radiator. Before summer was over I was offered around $2,000 for it.

For me, this is a good sized project that I plan to have my whole life. The 80's were a less than desirable time for cars in terms of performance, quality control, etc. My 3.5 G6 has about 50 hp more than my 305 bird lol. Even the 350's made what, 210hp on paper? Still fun, but nothing compared to the 60's-early 70's.

I'll always have a soft spot for firebirds over Camaros. They were always the underdogs. Since DeLorean couldn't manufacture the Banshee since it would compete with the Camaro, he was given the F-body as a compromise. Thus the firebird was born. I always feel that GM favored the Camaro, but the Firebird was still a great contender and much more relevant in popculture. Also, my great grandpa whom I get my name from always bought new Pontiacs every couple years throughout the 60's-70's when he was young enough to enjoy them, so it kind of runs in my family as well.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

NiG...

Yeah, I liked the 300zx but, it was on par with the third gen really. No better, no worse. Again mine was a 1985 non turbo.

It was my 1st legal car when I was 16 so I do have a soft spot for those... The T tops was much better than GM's, no question there.

Interior was 1980's cheap plastic, had the same feel as the third gens.. I liked the gauge lay out better in the 300ZX than the third gens.

I liked the ZX's seats better. They had more bolstering, power, and air adjustable.

The handling was great, but not as good as it should have been for an IRS car of that weight. It felt like it handled about the same as my next car (1984 camaro). The 300zx was about 200-300 lbs lighter than the v8 third gens.

The 300zx was harder to 'work' on. The engine bay was cramped with the big v6 and all the emissions, computer items. It was harder to get to.

The rear end (R200) is weak, just like the 7.5" 10 bolt is weak.

The third gen felt like a "tighter" car over all to me.

Keep in mine this was 1997 and 98, so both the '85 300zx and '84 camaro wasn't real old cars, hadn't been trashed yet, etc.

NiG

Ledman66, I know that it's all just about personal preferences, but, I mean... there have to be some objective feedbacks.
I do love my GTA, issues and price a part (prices are high in Europe since they seem exotic sports cars), but why the hell I've been hearing people talking about Nissan and Honda cars many times, and almost never about Camaro and Firebird, particularly 3rd gen?

For example: why no Firebird/Camaro appears in any Fast&Furious movie????

However I'm happy to know that 3rn gens are going up in value. I paid lots of money for my GTA.

Night rider327, I got that, lets say 80s Nissand and GM are equiparable. But what about a 90s 300zx VS a 3rd gen? Since in Europe prices are similar (3rd gens cost a bit less), why should someone buy a 3rd gen? It's a sort of provoking question, nothing more.

THANKS !

ledman66

iTrader: (2)

I would just say, the 3rd Gen "F" bodies are under-appreciated right now...for now...but one day will come into there own, as they are Camaros and Firebirds after all, and will always hold some interest/value in the Chevy world and eventually into the collector world. They only made IROC's for 5 years, how many can be really left? The cars can be modded for more HP and so on, but they have that stigma of being slow because Chevy used the 305 V8, which is actually a good motor, a little workhorse capable of much more than the stock motors Chevy put in the cars at the time. Once the 5.7L made a return, the Camaros were putting out better numbers in the 0-60 and 1/4 miles times than the cars of the 60's and 70's on average, depending on the cars options. It's that stigma, of a 1969 Camaro RS/Z28 396 4 speed, it's just an awesome car, but when you say, 1982 Z28 with a 155 HP CFI 305, well, it doesn't compare, but, we are talking 2 different time periods, and different rules.
They can only go up in value from here on out IMO.

Nissans, Honda, etc, are well known in the tuner world..SO, therefore, they put them in the movies as they are most recognizable to the tuner crowd thus attracting them to go see the movie. OLD muscle cars from the 60's and 70's, and exotics(lambo, ferrari, McLaren) always attract muscle car peeps and car buffs alike.

FirebirdUSX

They wont go up in value if some smart guy decides to make new ones (see DeLorean ) .
That 82 Camaro is killed by emision regulations bs and the curent marketing that says "more hp equals better sells" . Most people forget that hp is given by the torque ,those engine and especially the newer TPI ones have alot of torque but they are rated to 240 hp.That means you can get alot more power from them easier than is to get from a smaller engine which already runs at high rpms to get all the power from it (see europe's car industry).Also most people don't know that these 5.7 litres engine get good mpg compared to other engines that size .

Also fast and furios crap uses small tuner cars because like tuners they have zero knowledge how engines and car work plus they like small girly cars

okfoz

The Firebird is a step above the Camaro, it has always been that way. They used to say that Chevrolet for the hoi polloi, Pontiac for the poor but proud, Oldsmobile for the comfortable but discreet, Buick for the striving, and Cadillac for the rich.

Evidence of this is there are items that were standard on the Firebird that were optional on the Camaro.

I prefer the appearance of the Firebird Formula above all other third gens... It was by intent the GTO of the 1980's.

Regal105

i like the first gen bird better, split bumper camaro better than early 70s bird, 77-78 bird better than late 2nd gen camaro 85-92 camaro better then 82-92 fb/ta 93-01 ta better then the same year camaro(i think the camaro mirrors are just hideous the way their part of the fenders) im also sick of 5th gens and disapointed to see the 6th gen leaked pics to be much of the same.

okfoz

You lost me... which do you like best?

TheExaminer

Depends which gen. Thirdgens I am 100% Firebird, but with 4thgens, I prefer the Camaro. I was never crazy about what GM did with the 4thgen Firebird. The 02 TA is the best of the lot IMO, but the Camaro retains more of the Thirdgen look. The wheels on some 4thgen Firebirds were just hideous too, esp the base models.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

I cant explain it, but I just cant stand the 3rd gen firebird, yet I love a nice 3rd gen camaro. Like I said, I just cant explain it. Now 98+ I prefer the Firebird. Even to an extent the 93-98.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

For me, depends model / year... but I stick to this mostly...

For Firebirds, I like them trim, no GFX early ones and Formulas...
With the pop up head lights / front end, it fits...

For Camaros, I like the GFX ones better than the non GFX ones...
Again, because of how the front end / headlight area is, the boxy GFX adds to the look...

okfoz

In all honesty, I think that was the original intent of the original design. You look at an 82-83 Trans Am, and there was no ground effects to speak of. They let the design of the car speak for itself. But all Z28's from 1982+ had the GFX. THen came the Daytona Trans Am in 1983, and then the majority of the Trans Am's in 1984, and all Trans Ams from 1985+ had the GFX...

My personal preference is the Formula, it is simple, not flashy, and it has the best power to weight ratio