irishhockey34

iTrader: (12)

Hey guys, I started looking around under my carpet and found some not so good stuff (Pics below).


Can any of you auto body guys chime in and let me know just how bad it looks and what i'm in for here. The worst part is the car is gorgeous on the outside but the underside...not so much.

T Top



T top again



Driver Floor






Pass Floor




This is the car the above pics are from

beths91camaro

iTrader: (35)

Bad news- big time.
How about a rolling shell, and transferring everything over? I've got a clean rust free body, and I live about an hour away from you. Only thing is it's not a ttop car.
If you have someone professionally repair that car the right way, you're looking at probably 3k. My husband is in the auto body tech field.

jimdutro

iTrader: (1)

Nice offer, if it was me I would go for the roller in a heartbeat and avoid the body rot issues.

gholian

If the floor is that bad then most likely rot in other areas also. What is the hatch like where the spare wheel is. Is it rotten there also. With that type of repair you are talking about a lot of labour hours. New shell looks the best option.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I passed up on a T-top car because the head liner was trashed and I couldn't get a look inside. I bet that one is really bad underneath. Sometimes you can pull back the rubber to get an idea of how bad the rust is under there. Ground effects can also hide a lot of rust issues too.

But yeah, I would grab that roller and swap it over.

irishhockey34

iTrader: (12)

Is it worth it to swap it all over to a roller that I will need to paint? A paint job is $3k easy for a decent job. Man this sucks. I've had this car since I was 15

beths91camaro

iTrader: (35)

It's ultimately going to be up to you. The car we have is white, and it's straight- very few dings, etc. My hubby does paint on the side, and he tends to work with people on price, depending whether or not they want to help get the car ready, etc.

irishhockey34

iTrader: (12)

Beth thanks for the offer I'm going to take my car to my guy maybe this week just to see what he thinks about it. I'll definitely keep your offer in the back of my mind. The fact that it is already white is a plus.

MintWS6FORMULA

Definately worth it to store indoors.

camcore

Dude. Log onto npd.com look for floor pans for your car. Cut out yours and weld yours in. If you can't do it yourself, deffinately get it done at a shop. Dont trash it because of some floor rot. Every car does it.

beths91camaro

iTrader: (35)

Normally, if there's floor rot like that, there's a lot more thats going or gone, too.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Agreed. ^

85f-bird

We've had members on here fix worse than that. If you're paying someone to do the work, you're looking at money...if you're willing to tackle some of it yourself, it just takes time. To do it right would be way above my skill grade...if it's a car that you drive every now and again, and the rust is hidden in a place where you won't see it, and you're not trying to sell it a Mecum, you could probably do the fix yourself for the cost of the welder, a few beers, and a little sheet metal.

My 300k mile body looks ROUGH! I was expecting to take up the carpet and find out that the floor was essentially gone...but low and behold, after removing the carpet the rot I found was minor in comparison to yours (a couple pin holds). I welded in some patch panels and painted things black, and called it a day. I did have some more invasive rust on one front strut tower (rear towers looked new) and I had to cut and weld one of them, but for what I'm going to use the car for it's still excellent. Little primer, little paint, and the washer coolant bottle will cover the rest When it comes to fixing the rust on the body, i might hire it out...since my skill with a welder (and my equipment) isn't up to snuff...but for the hidden junk. I'll jump on it.

phasevariance

You may be better off putting the car up for sale as a in need of restoration type deal.

If money is not an object then you can pay someone to restore the floors for you. But first, you have to have an idea of how extensive the damage is. For example, if the rust extends into the wheel wells, strut towers, frame rails, into the rear the car is pretty much done for.

If the rust is caught early enough it can be patched or the pans replaced. I did my floorpans a few years ago and it's a job some people start and never finish. It's not for the faint of heart and requires lots of labor and time.

When it comes to rust, it is always much, much worse than it initially appears.

rusty vango

ok, admit it . if you own a chevy. you have rust. so what? its in how you deal with it that counts. no?

visitor

Ouch. Id likely look for a straight body. Sorry to see that, it looks nice.

beths91camaro

iTrader: (35)

Not necessarily!
I was fortunate enough to find a third gen convertible, hardtop, and t-top car 99% rust free. And the 57 Bel Air hubby is restoring now only has rust in the rockers, and in a couple floor braces.
My 01 Suburban has no rust- I flew to Colorado and drove it back so I could get a rust free one.
Honestly, it's more in the way you preserve it that keeps it from getting rusted out. My 2 cents.

phasevariance

I agree 100%. Rust does not discriminate.

87350gtanj

I would patch it up and enjoy the car just my

Mirror Image

iTrader: (2)

If you interior is as nice as the outside I would say fix what you have if you buy $$ a roller and have to paint the car $$$ then you may have more in it then you would what you have now

camarorsssss

iTrader: (2)

Like everyone else was saying, chances are there is more rust hidden elsewhere. The car is beautiful on the outside, so it would def be worth it to fix the rust issues and perhaps undercoat the undercarriage and anywhere else that may have moisture issues. If you are inclined to do it yourself, pick up a mig welder and learn how to use it and fix the rust. I have been repairing rust issues all over mine, and after replacing the ds quarter, the car will be rust free and coated to prevent future rust.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Drive what you have and enjoy it while you take your time buying a good roller and repainting it. A true roller in good shape will be relatively easy and cheap to paint. Pay someone a few hundred to media blast it inside and out primer and bondo it yourself and then tow it to the paint shop for color and clear. If you are brave you can buff it yourself as there are enough quickly decaying polishes to help prevent you from burning through if you are careful.

greenyone

iTrader: (1)

I'm in PA too. Rarely do you see a Pennsylvania car without a good deal of rot. I'm with the "find a roller" crowd on this. Find a non-rust-belt body or entire car. Sun damaged paint and interiors are a lot easier to deal with than all of that rust.

marki

I always wondered flipping through the pages of car craft, hot rod, etc. and seeing the old camaros, novas, etc. they never show you the under carriage...wonder if they were rust buckets and just did some patching to the floor and made the outside body very nice.

I would keep looking around at your car for anymore rust damage and if that is all you find patch it and cover it.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Look at the southern US craigslist ads or ads on this website where the car is in rust free and running. Fly down or drive with a friend, pick it up, drive it back and part one of the cars out. You would be surprised how much you can make back. I paid 700 for a non-running camaro took all of the parts I wanted, sold a few and sold the body to the scrap yard and I came out even.

irishhockey34

iTrader: (12)

I decided to fix what I have. I pulled the interior and surprisingly the body is pretty good, except for the pictures above. Local body shop will be doing all patch/repair work.

Parts ordered:
All new weatherstripping
New carpet
New center t top support bar

Also ordered new console lid, shifter plate, and fatmat sound deadener while I have the whole interior out. Figured I would do it right.

I will post progress pictures. No rush here though, I plan on having it done by March.

midias

GL, post pictures. Make sure they pull the fenders and check behind them.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Whatever their quote is add a few hundred if not a thousand. You're repairing the car only because of sentimental value and in a few years you will probably wwant to reshoot color and clear. From my experience repainting a roller is ththfaster and easier choice. And cheaper long term.

irishhockey34

iTrader: (12)

Yes, I am repairing because of sentimental value. How many people can say they have their first car sitting in the garage? I plan to keep it forever. No, it may not be cheaper, but some things are worth paying extra for.

Also, why would I want to reshoot color and clear? It was done 2 years ago...


As it sits now:

bryan623

Classic Industries has almost EVERYTHING you need to get you girl back on the road again with no rust!

http://www.classicindustries.com/sho...s/body-panels/

Most parts are all OER! Original Equipment Replacement officially licensed by GM! You can't get any better than that! Take out the carpet and head liner and sand/prime what you can and cut out the rot! There is no saving once it starts to rot. $3000 is cheap for a body restoration if you ask me. Heck a engine rebuild will usually cost as much so why skimp on the body? And if you had this fine lady since you were 15 why toss such a cool memory away simple because a little body rust is snaking its way in?

A live in PA too and I just picked up an 89 GTA Trans Am that was originally purchased in New Jersey! (Car Fax history report) And believe it or not but she is practically rust free! Keep that sweet car rolling forever bud!

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I think you will fi.d rust in the rear wheel wells or on the underside behind the rear wheels. It's utterly commonplace in Illinois to have rust there also. If it gets into the seam between the rear wheels and the body it has to be cut out. Good luck.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

OER stuff is questionable at best. I have seen some of their stuff and it is poor quality. The name is a deceptive attempt to lead people to believe it is original equipment but it is aftermarket stuff, probably made overseas. They just pay GM to have that 'license'.

willexoIX

+1. OER is crap. Had a couple things that fell apart/rotted within a year and a half.

bryan623

When you cannot get the part unless you go to a place like Classic is the only choice unless you want to dig around in a junkyard and hope to find a 25 year old part that's still usable.

irishhockey34

iTrader: (12)

Thanks for the input guys! I was quoted ~$1,000 for just the metal work. I'll be doing the rest myself. I will keep you all posted.

bryan623

That doesn't sound so bad.

alan91z28

Good for you, you only have one first car, and if it means something to you and have the means to do it, it will be an enjoyable project

there is no issue in repairing / rebuilding what you have, the link below is my first car rebuild project, i am lucky i found it and when i did i was committed to getting it back to its glory days ... plus these make great father / son projects

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...inal-88-a.html

phasevariance

Make sure it's seam sealed around welds and get the floor pans undercoated yesterday.

irishhockey34

iTrader: (12)

Hey guys, body shop is about 1/2 way done the work to my rust issues. Here is where I stand now.










Body shop is pretty much at a stand still because they weren't able to save the J-channel for the weatherstripping. I believe these are spot welded on? Which begs the question: does anyone have a ttop car with good j-channels they're willing to sell??? Or have any other suggestions?

Pontiac_Pete

You did what I would have (Except I am a body guy and would do it myself). I am all about trying to fix these older cars.You should have seen what I had to deal with on the '68 GTO I had, trunk pans, firewall, cowl panel, radiator support, and rear upper body panel. Looks like they did a pretty decent job too. I would look into getting the undercarriage sprayed also.

irishhockey34

iTrader: (12)

Update:

Here are the T Top channels as of now with almost all of the rust removed. Making progress:

f355bird

iTrader: (2)

looking good glad you are fixing your first car back up and not scraping it

padak

iTrader: (10)

I really can't believe how many people told you to swap to a roller, I have seen countless threads with worse rust (mine included) that people told me just cut it out and pop a floor pan in... I am glad you decided to fix it. GL.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

That's because at this point in the life of a Thirdgen the prices have hit rock bottom or are just beginning to appreciate. With that being said, depending on the extent of the rust damage it may very well be that it would be cheaper to buy a roller or cheap car to part out than it would be to invest the time and money to repair major rust or structural rust. Roller bodies in my area are $600-1200 depending on what is included and general condition. So for me replacing or repairing anything more than the floor boards is an economic loss. And to me cars have no more sentiment than a nice firearm.

phasevariance

Buy a roller/sell is typically the generic response to rust. But hell, I know what you are saying. I think there was one guy that literally cut his car in half and welded on another half just to save it.

GregLobb

Anything is fixable. How much time do you have, time is money and what are your welding skills like?

rusty vango

because two part paint wont stay. no matter what you do.the crappy clear coat always leaves

irishhockey34

iTrader: (12)

Not really sure what the point is here? This point could be made for any paint job on any car...

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Well, in my case with the last two cars it didn't turn out so well and ended up investing into something with reoccurring issues that just wasn't worth it. That and I've watched it happen many times to other people as well.

Yes it is because that's usually the most prudent route to take. On the other, there have been times when cars like that have split in half in an accident when they shouldn't have.


I think that's a good reason to keep the car and repair it. I hope you didn't take my advice the wrong way, it was with good intentions and came from my own personal experiences and also from what I have seen over the years. The rust around the T-Top area was probably from the way the weather stripping was installed and or repaired. There is a PDF for GM T-Tops floating around that may help when you get around to installing it so it doesn’t leak, and then also make sure whatever does get in will drain out. I have seen quite a few installations over the year in the junk yards where I can pull it up and look underneath and I would prefer minimal glue so that it can be periodically checked and also so the glue doesn't create places where water can pool. It is the same ideology as rust proofing on the bottom side of the car where you don't want to trap water. There was also later modifications (by GM) to the T-Top weather stripping to help channel water away, so that may be something to research as well.

rusty vango

I am and always will be a fan of urethane enamel paint. tough as nails.