TheExaminer

I've never welded anything before, but I'm a quick study. What kind of welds would be used to weld an sfc to the frame of an F body? I'd like to know so I can study it out carefully, and maybe try my hand at some pieces of scrap metal for a while to get good enough at it to give it a try. As I understand it in what little I know, it's key to keep the welder at a good temp to do the work without warping or distressing the metal. If it's way over my head and you're laughing, that just means I have to study longer and work harder.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Use a MIG welder "wire feed"

TheExaminer

Ok, that was what I figured. Looks like decent weld kits are reasonably priced, and I see tons of great resources on YouTube that help explain it. It's an problem for me because I'm finding constantly that there are issues in repair/restoration where metal work is needed. Sadly, I have a slight frame issue on my car, its a little out of square. If I can get it straightened, I want to weld sfc's to bolster it. We won't talk about what happens if I can't get it straightened....Anyway, time to broaden the skill set.

DeltaElite121

Where are you looking... a decent mig setup is a few thousand dollars, generally.

Gumby

what kind of drugs do you smoke?

I paid $300 for one over 10 years ago, gets neary daily used, have welded everything from paper thin gas tanks to structral welds on an auto frame.

There is nothing high tech about them, unless you go digital.

TheExaminer

Yeah, that was the range I found for a mig too. I don't need a full shop setup, just a small kit to do a little work here and there.

DeltaElite121

Your average Miller setup is NOT cheap. They start at roughly $1,000 and work their way up from there. You get what you pay for when it comes to welding units. Just because it makes a connection and shows you a pretty little bead doesn't mean it has what is necessary to do the job correctly.. especially if we're talking about car frames where that extra penetration is necessary. Prices have come down on some of the units, but that doesn't mean you should go buy some cheap POS unit just to cobble together a project.

DeltaElite121

check out Miller's website and you'll see a range of options.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/

Get something that can cover up to 3/8ths reliably and it should be able to do just about anything you'll ever need it for. Don't get a HF unit; those things are junk.

deadbird

Good thing there are other brands that sell good welders for much cheaper.
A modest hobby mig welder (Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Clarke 130EN, Hobart Handler 140) will range from $300-600.
All fully capable of welding any of the flimsy sheet metal these cars are made out of and up to 3/16-5/16 depending on brand.
Paying out the *** for a name doesn't always get you something superior.

Gumby

All the welding on my Firebird is done with it, the front lower shock mounts are weled in on my wagon with it.

Ive built custom bicycles from scratch and chopper front ends with it.

I have a busiess built around my HF welder.
I got saddlebag guards, engine guards, luggage racks sold world wide.
[ I make them for bikes you can't get them for ]

your just repeating what a salemen told ya and never bothered to try one for yourself.

my only addition was a 110a/c pancake fan for extended welding to keep it cool

TheExaminer

That's similar to what I was looking at. As usual, very helpful tips on this site. But how difficult was it to get good enough to feel confident welding on the actual car?

DeltaElite121

Lincoln makes some cool units, but I've never used the other two. Miller is my preference because I've seen a lot of new welders do STUPID things with them and we only had one failure with it (and he really messed it up pretty good). I've never preached "spending more ALWAYS gets more for the name" because that's definitely not true, but a welder is just one of those things I feel like you shouldn't sell yourself short on because the amount of potential projects of varying types is endless.

All I'm saying is: get something you know is going to last and you'll have fallback options if something decides to quit and/or stop working.

TheExaminer

Well, I have a lot to learn before I do anything on an actual car. Im already juggling projects, but this is one that might come up soon. One crisis at a time.

Gumby

4 power settings was the key to being able to do most anything.

should sizzle like bacon and flow smooth, test on parts then try and break them apart, hacksaw through a weld, weld two parts at a 90 then beat on the corner till flat.

#1 key is make sure the metal is clean, don't skimp on that, makes it harder to get a good weld, more so till your good at it. [ Then you can tackle a rusty exhaust pipe and not just turn it into swiss cheese as you need more heat to get a good sizzle ] I use a HF angle grinder with a metal griding disc, or a flap wheel disc. [ tiny flaps of sand paper ]

Also you will get burned, it will hurt, like cooking bacon naked, just stand there and take it. By time you can react, its over, so just keep your welding hand steady and just suck it up. [ easier said then done, between the toes sucks.......]

I buy those 99cent or less brown jersy gloves, leather welding gloves take away to much feel, those will last through a week of welding before falling apart from the 100s of tiny burn holes from splatter.

only extra protection I use if wearing tennis shoes, not work boots, is some leather booty covers, did I say between the toes suck? But I stand and weld for hrs at a time making parts.

Oh yea and I use a HF auto darkening welding helmet, blue flames

DeltaElite121

I HAVE been interested in that, though.. how's visibility?

Also, be careful on what you're wearing because being lit on fire is NOT a good feeling; especially if it happens while you're welding over long periods and you're wondering why the AC isn't on magically, and you lift your helmet up to a nice surprise.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

From what I've read you're supposed to have the car supported on it's suspension when you weld SFC's in place. If your body is not straight you may want to take it into a body shop and have them weld the SFC's while it's there. Either way, I would have someone with experience weld them in. You're not only welding, but welding from below and on something that is going to set the body into a permanent position.

Ron U.S.M.C.

Never weld without "proper" helmet or goggles if you care about your eyes.

Link = https://www.google.com/search?q=eyes...w=1440&bih=727

TheExaminer

Yip. That's why I say it may be a while. Between repairs of different kinds to all my cars and all my insurances coming due, I'm pretty well tapped out right now. It would be a while before I could even buy a kit, but I wanted some info to know what to start looking at. Right now I simply can't afford to have the frame tweaked AND have sfc's put in at the same time, hence the interest in welding on my own for a future project. Unless I come into a bunch of money, but you know how that goes.....

DeltaElite121

For something like this, I'd either borrow a friend's setup or just pay a reputable shop to do things correctly. Welding isn't difficult, but it does take practice to do it right (especially when you're hanging upside-down). Your first project probably shouldn't be a critical component on your car, but that's just my opinion. Try working on some smaller stuff first, then take on a bigger challenge like that.

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

Flux core burns hotter and is better suited for outdoor use. Some good advice here, do not skimp on cleaning the metal. Doing SFCs you will be doing mostly lap welds. I like to concentrate more heat on the thicker part and weave the thinner metal into it.

On brands, I have used lincoln, miller and hobart. I prefer 220v miller but my own personal welder is a 110v hobart handler 140. The hobart does indeed come with a miller torch, they are miller's budget line. I picked mine up at TSC and they fully stock all you will need to keep the machine running.

After getting your welder do not buy a cart, building one should be your first project. You will learn to use your machine as well as have something you will use every time you use your welder that is custom fit for your needs.

TheExaminer

Oh yeah, I'd never try that as my first project. Just gathering advice and information now. Like I said, one crisis at a time.....

willexoIX

Ive found the Eastwood 220v MIG 175 to be a very good unit for right around $300. We have had it for about a year and a half, and have used it for mild and stainless, and also aluminum. Number one thing to grab would be an argon/co2 gas canister for mild/stainless steel. If you want to do it cheaper go with the flux core wire, but using the shielding gas is much better. The Eastwood MIG 175 setup even comes with a free spool gun which is great for aluminum, with a straight argon gas for shielding.

I will re-iterate what was said earlier, DO NOT weld without a helmet! You like being able to see don't you? And yes, the slag sucks when it goes between your toes and anywhere else, just try to stay steady. Also don't weld without a shirt on. Flash burn is the equivalent of bad sunburn.

I have only been welding for about 2 months, lots of practice. I Have done my exhaust with pie cuts from the turbo, to past the muffler, its really not to hard but when working with structural stuff, its better to either wait till you get really good at welding, or just have a good shop do it.

Its not too hard, and yes you want it to sound like bacon cooking. Practice practice practice.

TheExaminer

That's very helpful, thx. Sounds like you're doing the kinds of things I want to be doing. When I get money built back up, I'll be able to look into it more. Great advice, good to know you can be functional and get work done after a couple months practice.

willexoIX

First practice for me was the exhaust, I didnt even start out welding scrap.

I tend to pick things up quick, plus I have been watching my father weld for years. My first weld was on a stainless vband to mild steel exhaust pipe. On exhaust its best to start with tac welds, then weld a little at a time, moving to a different spot to let it cool a little. I wound up not warping the vband so I think I did pretty well on it. My exhaust setup has 3 vbands in it, turbo to downpipe, one on the dp by the firewall, and another where it goes under the car, so if I want to run open downpipe I just have to remove one clamp and a hanger on the muffler. Also worth noting, my muffler is where the stock catcon was.

Just start slow when you do get to it and you shouldnt have any problems. I blew a hole in the exhaust pipe on a weld, and was able to close it right back up with some tac welds; thats the beauty of welding. Even if you mess up when you get started, most of the time you can just fix it with a couple more welds. Start small and work from there. I would suggest working with scrap until you get decent at it, then work your way up to small projects, like making a welding cart.

Practice, watch videos, and read and youll get the hang of it in no time. For me, welding for two months, now its like second nature

herders

I bought a Lincoln Welder 5 years ago the model escapes me, the highest 120v model that was available at the time, I also bought the gas package and tank.

I took a MIG welding course this winter at the local college for $500 bucks, you may consider the same, it is about getting practice and being able to make mistakes and have an instructor to guide you through and give you tips on how to use and what to buy.

I would say I am somewhat competent now.

I cobbled together a workbench when I first got it, glad I took the class.

My 2 cents....

TheExaminer

Yeah, the state college I went to has a great automotive program, and it's only about 8 miles from where I live. I've thought about taking classes, but it's a time and money issue right now.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

If you are just starting out, I wholeheartedly agree with picking up a cheaper welder, something with gas, and practice. It comes in handy SOOOO often for little things, and bigger things.

I personally use a Clarke 130EN and love it. It does everything I need it to do, and some stuff that it probably shouldnt haha. If you weld prep, and do a couple passes, you can get away with doing some thicker stuff.

But for SFCs... I dont think you'll enjoy those being your first real world project. Welding upside down, on your back, at different angles is NOT easy. These are welds you want to be clean and strong. YOu'll also want to weld along the pinch seam IMO. AND be wary of the carpet because it'll burn very fast while you're under there welding in certain spots.

Its also kind of difficult to get the car off the ground, keep the suspension loaded the whole time, and make it level. A shop with a good drive on lift, that does exhaust, might be able to weld them up for you for a reasonable price. Thats who I had do my first set of SFCs on my 87. Took it to a muffler shop and they did it for me in minutes for $20. Guy did it after his shift... The second set I did myself, but I had YEARS of welding practice between the two.

Def get a welder and learn though! its one of the more fun things to do in my opinion. Being able to even weld moderately opens up your options for so many projects!

Justin