sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

Im just following the trend of this thread LOL. Gotta enjoy a good BS bickering thread on TGO, they are few and far between :haha:

I'll stop since you dont like what I'm saying - but you still produced no "carbon 69"


there ya go

keeslinger31

Okay so just to say this there is a definite difference between a 40 dollar spray paint job and a diy job done with real paint and clear with a gun in an indoors environment nice and sealed from dust. And the latter doesn't cost a whole lot more.
BUT If I had a beater daily thirdgen that the paint was looking horrendous on and 40 dollars and a 6 pack would make it less embarrassing to drive. I would be ALL over it.

/End thread

blakecharles

for what it was, I thought my $54 paint looked good.

blakecharles

The car is still being put together. I posted 2 of mine, where is your project??

after we cut out the cage and welded a new floor, wells and... well everything.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

that a carbon fender in pic1?

in the power adder section. the rest of my projects are boats so i'll spare them from this site but they are more fun

blakecharles

no, Anvil dose not have the outer... the inner fenders are carbon fiber (vary expensive!!!!!)

there is a guy working on a yacht not too far from where I live. it's rockin 2 LS7's!!!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

yeah the epoxy is ~$100/gallon, then you gotta *** the cloth/fiber and THEN the labor and consumables it adds up fast

haps

iTrader: (4)

This statement makes you incomprehensibly unqualified to evaluate a paint job, and by extension, give any "advice". One can only hope you learn the definition of quality before the 69 gets painted.

blakecharles

whatever dude. there have been many post just like this one. you paint with $40 worth the rustoleum and no paint gun or compressor...let's see how it comes out.

again, I don't know what you ppl expect to see in a rustoleum thread.

PPL seem to have quite a bit to say, but would not do any better if given the same materials. OP's paint job is about as good as it was going to get.

The_Wraith

Previously you said this

You also previously claimed that you didn't even have a wall plug that would accommodate a compressor. You make no sense. You can afford to do up a 69 Camaro, but can't afford a paint gun or compressor? hmm that's a tough one to figure out.


Really then who are you talking about? Stay away from Recall buddy...


So is this Hauser or Quaid posting?

blakecharles

this still stands... if you could do better, please post.

blakecharles

Learn to read what you are responding to buddy. that's not what it says... "not everybody"... you don't see my name included in there.

The_Wraith

My god.. I give up.

blakecharles

if you read any of what i have posted you would know that a friend of mine has a beater car that we put together.

Sense you didn't read, I will post it again.
The car was 10 different colors when we finished it. He has a house and kids to pay for... he came to the conclusion that he would never be able to have the car painted. He didn't have a compressor, a place to plug one in, the money for proper paint... blah blah blah.

It's not all that hard to understand. If a person is using Rustoleum... it should be more than obvious that they cannot do it the right way for whatever reason. that was the purpose of my post.

It blows my mind that nobody is getting it.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

I think the suggestion of spending a few hundred dollars to do a still affordable but reasonable quality DIY paint job on the car that you supposedly care about is very reasonable. Try to understand that those of us that have invested years of our time into making our 3rd gens beautiful would like to raise the expected standard of care for 3rd gens somewhere north of a $40 rattle can paint job. This IS an enthusiast board. Maybe your friends will like your $40 paint job, but enthusiasts won't be impressed.

MYFIRSTZ

AMEN!

afremont

I know where you're coming from, I don't know why people are acting like it's child abuse of some kind to try and make something look better than it does, even if it's not the "best" way. What amazes me most is that most seem to think that words like "right" and "best" can actually be turned into references to specific paint brands and techniques. This is just not even close to reality. Kinda like the statements about being able to paint a car for $300.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

Nobody is upset that someone is trying to make their car look better. They are pointing out that by putting in virtually the same time but increasing the cost from almost free to affordable will make a huge improvement in appearance and durability. It's a better VALUE! We aren't demanding "best", we're just expecting "better" and not rewarding "worst" with compliments.

If that didn't explain it, I'll try one more way to express the concept:

Rattle Can (Option A):

Cost- approximately $40

Appearance- Well, at least it's all one color. It'll have some shine for a short time if you put in lots of effort, but will never have the depth of automotive paint

Durability- Soft and very thin, will chip easily, especially if driven in the first month after applying. Will discolor after sun exposure and will wear through fairly quickly compared to other options



Single-Stage Enamel Automotive Paint (Option B):

Cost- approximately $300 to $500 including cheap spray gun (you may have to borrow or rent a compressor)

Appearance- This is what was used on cars from the factory up until the early 1980s. Has some good depth, but not as good as a base/clear coat application would. Can be buffed to a very good shine, but may need to be buffed again every couple of years to maintain the shine.

Durability- Excellent durability. Coats are thick and very hard. In fact, it will hold up to abuse better than a base coat/ clear coat paint job.



Professional Base Coat/Clear Coat Paint Job (Option C):

Cost- Approximately $4,000 to $8,000

Appearance: Can have mirror-like shine and great depth of color. Quality can vary in regards to how much orange-peel is present, generally the higher end of the price spectrum should get you a smoother more mirror-like show car level reflections.



So Here are your options on the Time, Cost, Appearance and Durability Spectrums:

Time: (Option C not included because it's purchased)
---------------------------A-B-----------------------------
Cost:
-A-----B--------------------------------------------------C

Appearance:
--A-----------------------------------------B-------------C

Durability:
--A------------------------------------------------C------B


Option A gives you little return for your effort. Option B is a very good VALUE for an enthusiast on a tight budget. Option C is at a cost premium if you are willing and able to pay for top-end appearance.

nosajwols

iTrader: (1)

I personally get why someone may paint their car this way and do see the advantages:

1) The car is now all one colour, if you are worried about the "breed" it is better for a car to be one colour but look faded than a multi colour primed up beater. I would agree if the car was full of runs or the paint was spotty, does not look that way to me.
2) The depth of the paint looks pretty much like the faded paint on my daily drivers that are 10 and 12 year old luxury cars that I drive not polish with two stage factory paint jobs. Looks better than the original scratched up and faded paint on my 82 (single stage I am guessing) before it was repainted.
3) Not everyone wants or needs a polished up princess, the car is a driver not a show car.

Now for me I would likely not go this route but I do see why someone would. Beating down someone with one of these paint jobs will not make your thirdgen a high-end collector car.

cal30_sniper

iTrader: (16)

What was your plan, just to wait for a little while until the posts where people actually explained how it could be done for a few hundred dollars, the RIGHT way, were too many pages back for people to read? No, you can't afford all the equipment to do it, but if you're actually involved with this hobby on a local level, you can easily mooch a compressor and paint gun off of somebody else. Single stage paint, sandpaper, acetone, and a few prep supplies are not that expensive, as has already been explained. Sure, you might go over the $300 mark when you factor in bondo, filler, primer, etc. However, the OP didn't use any of this stuff to factor into his $40 cost either. The fact remains, you will get a much better paint job, that will last much longer and not look like a load of garbage, for a price that is easily within the reach of a few months savings for anyone who has time and money to be putting into these cars in the first place.

Next you're probably going to do something like try and bring Chip Foose into this discussion again to tell us that none of our paint jobs will ever be good enough no matter how much we spend. Let me head you off at the pass before you make any more dumb comments. Something that appears like it might have left the factory that way (i.e., a good single stage job) will be respected amongst the automotive community. It may not be the "right" way to repaint a factory base coat/clear coat cat, but it certainly could be argued that it is the "best" way for someone on a budget who just wants something that looks nice. Something that looks like you sprayed your car with rattlecans, is striped, mottled, and has no depth, and has to be treated multiple times a year just to retain its initial level of not looking so great, is not "right", "best", or smart.

Blakecharles, its tough that you can't get single stage automotive paint in the People's Republic of Kalifornia. You should definitely keep that in mind when you go to the polls. However, for the rest of us who can get it, its really pretty dumb to even seriously consider rustoleum, especially on a car you supposedly care about that. If you have to do Rustoleum, at least pay your car the courtesy of rolling it on so it doesn't look like a mess. Rattlecan is the absolute worst way you could do this shy of a paintbrush. The internet is full of rolled on rustoleum jobs for less than $100 that actually look pretty decent, at least for a while. A lot better than the stuff posted here at least. You still have all the other problems associated with rustoleum, but at least it doesn't look really bad to start with. If you think there's no difference in application between rattlecan and roll-on or a good HVLP gun, then you need to do some serious reading before you continue to voice opinions and claims which just aren't true.

As has been said before, if you really only have $40 to paint your car, you should still read up on a good roll-on job. It can be done for the same or less cost, and will look much better. It takes a lot more time than just spraypainting your car, but it won't look like you spraypainted it when you're done either. If you really are so pressed for time and funds that a really halfway done rattlecan paintjob seems like a good idea to you, then please don't come posting it on an enthusiast forum and expect a load of compliments. It's just not going to happen.

-cal30sniper

cal30_sniper

iTrader: (16)

Go back and look more carefully at all of the pictures the OP has posted on this. there's a reason that his first shots are taken from across the yard. The close-ups that he took show how rough this paint job really looks.

Yeah, he probably did a good job for a $40 rattlecan job. That's not saying much.

afremont

I wrote a big long spiel, but I'll just save it for later. I'll just cut to the chase, Option B does not exist. I challenge you to put together a realistic list of paint and materials to paint the car "properly". By properly I mean strip it completely, rust kill, epoxy, block, seal and paint the car. You have to include all primers, paints, tape, sand paper, masking paper and plastic, chemicals for cleanup and prep. I'll let you skip guns, power tools and the compressor since they could be borrowed, in theory anyway. It can't be done, not with anything resembling paint that an amateur could successfully shoot without massive runs or needing 10 coats to cover.

This stuff is expensive, especially if you want to do it with quality materials. I just priced some DBC metalic base and DCU2021 clear. With reducers and activators, it's ONLY $100 per sprayable quart each. So for 3 quarts of base and 3 quarts of clear, that's $600 right there.

afremont

I offer you the same challenge. Just show me a list like I described in the other post and real world prices. Like you said, plenty of people have said how it can be done, but nobody has actually provided a list of suitable materials to do the job.

You can keep your judgmental opinion to yourself though. Just show me the list with prices and then we'll have a real debate about it.

cal30_sniper

iTrader: (16)

Why are you quoting prices for base coat/clear coat metallic in a discussion about budget single stage paint jobs?

Oh really? Would you like to add in the cost of completely stripping, rust killing, epoxy, block and seal to the $40 that the OP claimed? You don't need to completely strip a car to get a good single stage paint job. You have to kill the rust and make sure that the base paint is good solid stuff with no hidden rust. That's about it. We're not talking show car paint jobs here, we're talking paint jobs that will look good, last, and actually be something to be proud of.

As far as your paint costs, Summit Racing offers a gallon of single stage red paint, with hardener and reducer included, for $130:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...p321/overview/

(all following prices from AutoZone)
Body Filler, 1qt: $20
1lb of glazing putty: $9
5 cans of spray primer for any spots you got down to bare metal or had to bondo: $30 (or buy 1/2 gallon to spray with your HVLP gun for $25)
1 gallon of Acetone: $17

That brings us up to $206 bucks. That still leaves another $94 bucks to buy all the sandpaper and painting masks that your heart could ever desire, or pick up some more primer. You could throw a sanding block into that cost, or you could make your own out of a 2x4 and some staples. This is not the way a paint shop would do an expensive paint job, but it will get you almost the same results for much less money. It will also get you way better results than rustoleum for not much more money.

And before you comment on the quality of the Summit paint, notice that they use all the same colors and paint chips as Eastwood paints. Much like many other things they sell, it is nothing more than a re-badged product from somebody else's line.

There's your $300 paint job. Up the cost to $500, and you can start getting really fancy with supplies, or plunge for some fancier paint.

-cal30sniper

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

Thank you Cal30_sniper for putting the costs together. At this point, I just see it as argumentative to keep saying that a decent quality DIY paintjob isn't an option.

This isn't an attack on people with small budgets, it's showing them there's a much better, still affordable way to paint their cars. Its a couple hundred dollars and one friend (maybe a new car-loving friend you have to make) with a compressor beyond the cost of spray cans, and it's something you can post on an enthusiast message board and get a thumbs up instead of this mess.

As someone above said, if you don't care what your car looks like and you just want to rattle can it (or even if you feel the need to rattle can it on a very temporary basis until you can do something better), you can't possibly expect to post it on an enthusiast message board and not be poked a little.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

I did a boat of similar size to a car with PPG shopline base and epoxy primer, Cheap PPG JC-60 clear, filler, and paper, masking, prep all, for under 350 including the paint gun. Only thing I am not inlcuding is the compressor. The primer/paint/clear was 160-190 including reducer/hardener. Its a cheap job, but looks good and will LAST

Go to a Tasco paint supply, ask for the cheapest version of the color you want, and JC-60 clear and whatever primer to go with it, strip/scuff the car, mask it, degrease the hell out of it, and spray away. Its not hard to take the extra steps to not total fubar a paint job if you use your head

cal30_sniper

iTrader: (16)

Jeremy, that's an excellent summary of what I've been trying to get across in this thread. The only thing I'd add or change to what you wrote is that you can actually do a BC/CC job yourself for much less than $4-8k. The cost of supplies is pretty much the same between a single stage and BC/CC job. You're just paying more for the paint itself. You'd want to be more careful with the prep work since you're spending so much money on paint, but a very nice DIY job should still come in under $2k or so.

The fact still remains, that for a budget paint job, a good single stage paint is exactly what you want. It's cheap, and WAY better than anything you're going to find in the lawn and garden painting section of Home Depot for $40. Do it right, or don't do it at all. If you absolutely can't do it right, then there's no need to brag about that. Is THAT so hard to understand?

afremont

What a joke, I'd like to see a project completed like that. Primer in a can and using the factory paint as a base, that won't last and you know it. It's just a complete waste of money to do something like that. That's why you don't see any real painters defending that nonsense. And making a sanding block from a 2x4, that's truly priceless.

EDIT: One gallon of acetone and that's it? That's what you're going to wipe the car down with and then shoot it? I hope somebody follows your advice and shows us the results, one picture will be all it takes. And as far as "it will get you almost the same results for much less money". LMAO, you actually have the gall to say that about your method vs. a paint shop. There won't be anything remotely as good if you do it that way. It's all about the prep and the base, rattle can primer along with splotches of factory primer and paint will make for a splotchy paint job.

cal30_sniper

iTrader: (16)

It will last, and I do know it. I already posted a picture of a car that I painted in a very similar fashion, when I was in high school. As previously stated, it has lasted close to a decade in direct exposure to one of the harshest environments in the United States for automotive paint. What more would you ask out of a budget paint job?

What's wrong with make a sanding block from a 2x4? It's not pretty, but it does the same job as the sanding block you buy at the store. For the record, a 3M sanding block costs $7, which is what I used. That being said, if you were really counting every last dollar and didn't mind a bit more labor changing out sand paper, a 2x4 makes a free sanding block for anyone that has one laying around (which is probably most of us).

Do you have an actual criticism against spraying primer out of a can, or are you just being a pompous jerk? As I stated in my parts list, you can buy a 1/2 gallon of sprayable primer for $5 less than the cost of spray cans. The spray cans are easier to work with, but if you have some sort of aversion to them, the other stuff is actually cheaper, and you get more of it.

You seem to have no middle ground between "A $40 piece of crap paint job that required no body work and looks terrible, 'That's an awesome idea!'" and "You absolutely have to strip your car down to bare metal and spend $1k on paint to have a respectable paint job". That line of thought is illogical, narrow-minded, and completely incorrect. There is a middle ground. It's called a budget paint job. Paint shops don't do them, because they're not in the business of budget, they're in the business of making money. Do-it-yourselfers do these kind of paint jobs all the time, because they're actually concerned with following a budget and still having something that looks good.

I've got news for you buddy, if someone is willing to put in the time and effort to prep that factory base correctly, and take their time spraying on a budget paint job, it's going to come out looking great and last a long time. Once it's painted, you're not going to be able to tell whether it was stripped to bare metal or not. Car enthusiasts have been doing those kinds of paint jobs for years, welcome to the real world.

blakecharles

I get the whole "if you cant do it right then don't start the project" approach. but like I said, stuff happens. My $54 paint job more than exceeded my expectations, but I didn't expect much from to start with.

It's like I been saying, IROC's can be had for less than $1000 in a lot of cases. Most of the mid year f bodys I see around my area are so beat down they would look better with just about any paint. Some of us can afford to bring them back to life, others cannot (whatever the reason).

So should a person that cannot afford a real paint job (or have the tools/knowledge for DIY) just give up on his/her project??? My car was multi colored before the paint touched it. Your looking at parts from over 6 different cars (also some new parts).

Before


After

cal30_sniper

iTrader: (16)

Have you ever used Acetone? Grab a few old cotton t-shirts, splash some acetone on them, and commence wiping. Turn the cloth as necessary as it gets dirty. I promise you, you're not going to use even 1 gallon of the stuff by the time you've wiped the entire car. You've got to let it dry after wiping, but it'll work just fine.

It will make a more than adequate base, especially if you are keeping the factory color. There's no "splotch" to it, as long as it's grease free and has all been sanded to the same grit before you spray it, the single stage topcoat will go over it like nobody's business. The paint doesn't care what color it's going over, or whether the primer came out of a paint can or a HVLP gun. Where does this "splotch" term even come from? Do you think the paint is going to say, "hey, here's a clean surface that's the same sanded texture as everything else around, but I'm not going to stick to it!" Get a grip on reality man. I have posted a picture of a vehicle painted in such a fashion. I've got more pictures if you want to see different angles. My guess is, you'll just continue to refuse to face facts though.

afremont

You can call me all the names you want, it doesn't change anything so just grow up and stop doing it. Just over the last few years, this stuff has sky rocketed. Where is the COMPLETE list I asked for? You spewed a couple of prices and then went right back to how cheap the rest of it is. A cheap durablock kit is at least $70, and that's not the one you really want to use. I suggest you try again to make a real list that is complete with everything you need. You will quickly see that it grows beyond $500 rapidly and once you're spending that kind of money it only makes sense to buy quality materials and do it "right". That's why there is no middle ground.

Tell me how my car is going to hold up even if I don't strip it. Anyone refinishing a third gen should be stripping at least the base and clear off. Didn't you see the pic of my car where masking tape removed the base and clear, the paint looked fine?

I've been in the real world for fifty years now. Real paint jobs involve sealing and priming the entire car. You will never see a real painter paint a car that has a patchwork of different colors on the surface.

Sanding blocks are supposed to be flat and square and they usually have padding, a 2x4 has none of these attributes. Try it some time and see for yourself, a 2x4 is end to end high and low spots. You'd be better off using your palm.

cal30_sniper

iTrader: (16)

This is a perfect example of painting over factory base paint with added primer and filler as necessary. Does anybody see any "splotchiness" in his paint? I sure don't... And this is tractor enamel, not even automotive quality paint. You'd have gotten even better results that actually lasted by just taking a few extra dollars for quality paint at this stage (as well as removing the GFX and properly painting underneath them, of course).

afremont

This says it all right here. You know basically nothing about painting, why do you keep on with this? The base will most certainly show thru and the paint does "care" what it's going on top of. Especially if you're going to use the almost pure solvent based cheap paint. It will not cover the splotches and they will show thru many coats of paint.

There was a truck painted recently on one of the forums and after numerous coats, the factory color was still showing thru. I believe he had to strip it and redo it all after sealing it. HOK paint is totally dependant upon the FACT that base color shows thru the topcoat. You're the one that refuses to face facts.

I don't paint for a living, but I know people that do and I've read allot about it over my life.

EDIT: LOL I can't help but note the irony of you using blakecharles rustoleum paint job to try to prove your point about coverage. You need to actually try this stuff again and refresh your memory, it's not easy and it's certainly not cheap. Real paint doesn't cover like rustoleum, especially not the really cheap stuff because it's all solvent and binders with less actual pigments. That's why it's cheaper, it doesn't cover in one, two or even three coats unless you like runs.

EDIT2: I guess that's not rustoleum on the white firebird, but still not a urethane paint.

blakecharles

lol! a little?? Yall are slapping this guy around like a pinata! lol

blakecharles

I'm no painter... but I've seen time after time, BC/CC used over OEM paint (in most cases, a build primer is used then BC/CC over factory paint)... however, YOU ARE RIGHT.... some paints do depend on the Base showing through. The HOK Tangelo and snow white pearl REQUIRE a white base coat for the desired effect. You just need to read the instructions for whatever your using.

I'll be the first to admit, there is nothing special about my paint job... But it looks a whole lot better than OP and only @ $54.

ALSO.... mine is not rustoleum... it's $54 tractor paint (topside), zerorust (black), rustoleum and truck bedliner on the wheel wells and underside

afremont

You should dig thru the archives and see what a case of PKB this truly is. There are quite a few skeletons lurking in peoples closets around here. Makes it dangerous to throw rocks like some do.

You see I figure if you tossed a numbers matching drive train, cut an access panel for the pump, tossed the TPI for a carb, or "tampered" with the emissions systems then you have no room to talk about doing things right. Anyone that's offended by that, too bad.

cal30_sniper

iTrader: (16)

I gave you a list of everything necessary to paint a car on a budget. You don't need $70 blocking kits, $600 paints, or a bare-metal stripping job to get a paint job that will look good and last well. You're confusing custom hot-rod paint jobs and budget, in-your-garage, do-it-yourself jobs. If you're going over a car that has a fairly solid (faded, but not peeling off) factory paint job, and not much body damage, there's absolutely no reason to strip it to bare metal. I've SHOWN you that it works, and how much it costs. I don't know what else you want to see? Your inability to face the facts and admit that you started off wrong several pages back when you claimed it couldn't be done for the price I quoted is getting ridiculous. You can add all the "professionals wouldn't do it" qualifiers you want. It doesn't change the fact that a good, budget job can be done for $300 that will last for years.

There are always exceptions to the rule. Sounds like you got the short end of the stick. Just because the paint on YOUR third gen is horrible, doesn't mean that all of ours are. I've owned three of them from '87-88, and I would not have hesitated to paint over the factory job on any of the three. The OP clearly painted straight over his factory job without so much as even sanding it. All we're saying, is that he could have gotten much better results with some sanding, some body-work, and some good quality paint. If you want a show-car paint job, this is clearly not the thread for you.

So in that fifty years, have you never pulled out an engine to re-ring and re-gasket it? Have you never found a low miles transmission, alternator, water-pump, or rear-end out of a junkyard to get by and make something last longer on a budget? These are all things that you won't find "professionals" do, that work just fine for the daily enthusiast on a budget. I'm not a real painter, and chances are, neither are hardly any of us. That doesn't mean I can't get great results out of much cheaper products than you'd find in a showcar paint booth. Dumping thousands of dollars into a professional paint job that's worth more than the car its on just isn't feasible for most of us. Screwing it up even worse than it was for a $40 paint job when a little more money would get much better results isn't smart either.

Great, as I already stated, I used a $7 3M sanding block on my job and it turned out just fine. On the one spot of body damage I had to work with, I used a foot of 2x4 to get something very close to flat for working big spots that was still going to keep the overall cost down. It wasn't as nice as working with the sanding pad, but it still got the job done. Here's a pro-tip: use a straight edge when selecting your 2x4 for this job. Find one without any noticeable high and low spots. Not that hard to do.

There's a difference between working on a budget and just being cheap. A lot of it happens in the preparation and parts selection phase. If you want a quality budget paint job, the net is loaded with prime examples all done for several hundred dollars. If you want a showcar quality paint job, this is clearly not the thread for you.

cal30_sniper

iTrader: (16)

That's like the pot calling the kettle black. Do you actually understand the difference between BC/CC and single stage paint? I guarantee you that 3 coats of good single stage will completely cover ANY color mismatch underneath. I should know, the white Chrysler I showed had single stage white paint over dark blue factory color front fenders. If that didn't bleed through, I couldn't think of anything that would.

Maybe the reason your paint job is terrible is because somebody tried to paint over it with this magical see-through paint you're talking about. By that logic, wouldn't you have to have primer that's exactly the same color as your topcoat too? How much more ridiculous are you going to get with this argument?

cal30_sniper

iTrader: (16)

Cool, you keep driving your 100% untouched original just as it left the factory 3rd Gen while the rest of us have fun with ours. That grouping doesn't even make sense. What does cutting an access hole for a fuel pump have in common with a proper carburetor conversion, a stroker build, a six-speed conversion, or an LS swap? If these cars were the end-all be-all from the factory, there wouldn't be an aftermarket with them. That doesn't mean there still isn't a difference between doing things and doing things right that any reasonable person should be able to see.

afremont

Of course I've used junkyard parts and made plenty of choice by looking in my bank account. That's what this is all about and I thought I was on the side of the OP. OTOH, when you shell out money and in my book that's any time I have to spend $500 on something, then I go ahead and bite the bullet. Getting my car painted professionally for $5000 is not going to happen, ever (unless I win the lottery somehow). As far as doing it right, then I want it to look like the factory job or at least close that's why I would use the better base/clear paint, plus it's easier to use for amateurs than single stage. Expensive paint lays down and cheap paint runs and gives you fits. An expert painter can make use of cheap paint because they have skill that can offset it. I can't do that and I doubt many of us here can. It's an art, since I'm not an artist I'm willing to pay more to make it less of a gamble. Do you understand where I'm coming from there?

It's like engine kits. Yeah you can buy all the stuff and in theory it should all fit together without a machine shop. Unfortunately that's not how it works in the real world. We have a recent thread about this very thing. Hopefully the OP there won't have wasted a large amount of money only to ruin a block and crank in five minutes because he was told he could do it himself for X dollars using blah blah blah. See what I mean? In the real world, you still have to take your parts to a machine shop for final fitting and balance.

The paint thing is the same way. To even come close to having success, it's going to cost a bunch of money, especially if you're starting from scratch. The supplies and consumables just can't be ignored, even stinking paper towels cost a fortune now; especially those blue ones. As for the acetone thing, I could see how you got away with that, but with people working outside (like in my situation), it's not enough of a cleaner. You have to use a waterborne cleaner as well to remove things like tree sap and bug poop. Many people like denatured alocohol and water mixtures, that's what I used along with real W&G Remover which is naphtha mostly I think.

If you have a nice clean indoor environment, then you can get away with skipping some steps. You also don't need to worry about how long it takes for stuff to dry. Working and painting outside and you have to worry about how long things take to dry and the better paints dry faster so I'm kinda forced to up the materials grade.

I'm not just trying to be argumentative about this stuff, I'm trying to be sure that people consider all the real expenses involved. If somebody wants a $300 paint job, then they might get the best results from M***O. I'm tempted to get mine totally prepped and give them a try.

afremont

It has to do with "ruining" things. The things I mentioned come far closer to permanently damaging the value of the car than painting with rustoleum. You see my opinion is different than yours, but that doesn't make it wrong.

EDIT: I'm speaking in terms of originality. I'm of the opinion that antique items be kept in as original condition as they are found. If you want a hacked up car, buy one there's plenty available, but don't hack one up. There's no such thing as a "proper" carb conversion in my book since they didn't come that way from the factory. These cars are antiques and should be dealt with accordingly. Everything you mentioned besides the six speed conversion isn't even legal anyway. Federal EPA rules make that clear.

cal30_sniper

iTrader: (16)

I get where you're coming from there. I had the luxury of an overhead carport, and tarped up the sides to keep exposure to the elements down. I also laid it down fairly thick to leave enough to come back and wetsand out any imperfections or orange peel. I wouldn't paint my GTA that way, but if I had a DD that I wanted to look nice again, I would definitely consider painting one that way again. It may be what I end up doing to my Suburban when the time comes. The main problem with those methods is that they are very time consuming. However, that's also the case with any good paint job that you're going to do yourself.

I would not take a car to Maaco though. The portions of my black bird that the PO had painted by them faded pretty bad after a year in the Texas sun. I don't know what quality paint they used, but it was terrible. They also did a pretty bad job with the aftertreatment that left some cracks in some of the paint. Overall, I was not impressed, which is why I had most of it repainted at a good body shop. That paint has held up wonderfully, although it did cost $1k because I didn't have the time to do it myself.

afremont

I can't believe that I'm going to even answer this. Yes I do know the difference. Funny that you mention how 3 coats of GOOD paint will cover anything. I suggest you run down to the paint store and get some and take a look, I think you'll be shocked at what passes for a can of paint now in terms of how pre-thinned it is.

My paint job is the factory original, nothing magical about it. GM paid good money to repaint a whole bunch of cars that did the same thing as mine, and not just camaros. I just didn't experience the problem in time because I took good enough care of my car that it was delayed. It's the 89 and on cars that seem to have the most problematic paint. It was early waterbased paint and it didn't stick to the primer. I'm sure you can find plenty of material on the net to edify yourself about it.

blakecharles

It took a LOT of work!!! Getting the GFX off a convertible is impossible unless you have baby hands, you will never be able to get them back on!!!

cal30_sniper

iTrader: (16)

Sorry, but a T56 swap, carb conversion (done right), an LS swap, or an emissions delete is not going to damage the value of your car like a rustoleum paint job will. In many cases, those kinds of modifications will increase the value of your car to the right buyer. Those things also have a performance benefit, make your car easier to work on, and increase the level of respect you will get in a community of enthusiasts. 99% of your rustoleum paint jobs aren't going to do any of the above.

afremont

Pretty much everything you listed makes it illegal to drive the car in all 50 states, regardless of current enforcement. Outside of the transmission swap, none of those things is legal to do by anyone in the US.

EDIT: How is that not going to damage the value permanently? The rustoleum will come off, it's not permanent. I hope you don't think there's any performance to be gained by deleting the emissions equipment? An intake and carb swap will never be worth more than a functioning TPI system either. I don't know what you are calling the "right" buyer, but it must be some small percentage of the total market. I get way more respect from true car fans when they see under the hood and see it's not just another carb conversion. I'd say that most people now haven't seen a working TPI in over 10 years.

cal30_sniper

iTrader: (16)

A TON of 3rd Gens came from the factory with carbs.

There's also nothing emissions illegal about an LS swap, as long as you swap over all the emissions stuff with it.

So, I listed 1 thing that was illegal, an emissions delete. This topic has been beat to death elsewhere, there's no need to get into it here.

Can we get back to topic, or do you plan to go further off-track with this thread?

blakecharles

Even with all the UMI mods, LS1/T56 and everything else, I would never expect to get more than 8k for my car (and that's pushing it). mid-year F-bodys are not worth much and me even getting 8k would depend on the buyer being a thirdgen enthusiast.

No paint job is going to change that.

cal30_sniper

iTrader: (16)

A high quality paint job could increase that number, just as much as a really shoddy paint job would decrease it considerably. No paint job will ever get your money's worth back out of it. But you probably aren't building that car for profit (you're in trouble if you are).

Most of us are, however, building our cars with the expectation that we can increase the amount of respect, admiration, and appreciation you will get from other enthusiasts. Adding a cheap rustoleum paint job that looks like crap is not going to help you out in that department.