TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

I am an original owner - never even touched up the paint.
A semi-retired body guy agreed to take on my project while I help with grunt work. He will do body to primer, then I'll find someone else to paint.
If anyone has any helps/tips, seals, parts, etc. please chime in. I've never done body/paint.

Took off the bumpers, lenses, door handles, mirrors, spoiler (looking for a high-rise 93-7). Bumper covers will go out for re-conditioning.

Looked at taking off the metal band that goes around the back hatch glass, but it appeared that it is attached to the hinges at the top. It has slight surface rust up on the top. I guess I could carefully work around it.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Took the hood off and applied the paint stripper - this stuff stinks!

QUICKCHICKEN

iTrader: (12)

the trim around the glass will come off with some work. IIRC its just pinched onto the glass.

lonesomeloser

If there are any dents, fix them while the car has paint on it>>>>much easier to see!

Also if using the paint stripper, make sure the metal is extremely clean afterwards. It is possible for that stuff to soak down into the metal and might rear it's ugly head up into the new paint later.

The metal trim can be hand sanded and hit with some black spray paint. You'd have to mask the glass but I think it would be easier than trying to remove the trim and replacing it.

Use gloves when handling the bare metal. You don't want oil/ contaminants from your skin on there.

Think of things that would be worthwhile to fix now. Like, the door hinge bushings.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Thanks guys. I will try to gently pry the band off by the hinges. Will remove, sandblast, & paint.
Yes, I have new hinges - the grease-able ones from topdown solutions.

I will be using the best Dupont primer - a Chrom something or other, can't remember the label name. Plan on using PPG World base & clear. Any ideas where this can be priced reasonably? I know it's going to hurt, but I won't skimp on paint quality.

lonesomeloser

My local Carquest has PPG products. Don't know if they would have what you're looking for. Have you checked out SPI? I plan on using their primer and clear coat.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Took the doors off, today. Will sandblast driver's door so I took out all parts. Pass side I'll grind minor rust off so left all parts in the door. Taped it up and pushed it outside for sandblast - door, rear fender areas, and door sill areas.
Welded up the spoiler mount holes for a '95 fiberglass spoiler I picked up.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Outside and ready for sand.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Anyone know the part # for these stops on the power windows?

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

I've been asking around at paint shops. Looking for downdraft with oven. Consensus seems to be about $1k for paint (base & clear) and about same for labor = $2k.

How much base is needed for these cars, 3 quarts or a gallon? Not going to cheap out here. Three quotes (Sickens, PPG Global, or Dupont's best) all seem to be around $1k.
One shop they would do it for time & material, but they didn't quote paint labor (guessing around $80) and they estimated 10-12 hours. That's with me bringing in panels & shell final sanded - they just mask and paint.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

For those stops I drill out the rivit an throw the stop away.
I get some parts from a 87-93 mustang Air box. Its the 2 upper rubber studed mounting bolts that hold the air box to the pass inner fender.
Ill try and post a pic in a min.

lonesomeloser

Would a rubber disc from an old end link work? I may go this route.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

They might.
This is what I use, they are to keep the glass from rattling while all the way down. You can see that I cut one end off. I like these because the rubber is molded to the stud and comes with the bolt. Only bad thing about em is you may have to drill the hole out a tad bigger 4 the stud. I've had these in my car for 20 yrs so far and are still working great.
BTW you may want to use a fiberglass stock type rear wing. It has waay better downforce than any other out there. Anything over 140 and there will be rear lift and a nasty floaty feeling.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Interesting comment on downforce. I'm using a stock '95 fiberglass wing which is very similar - the edges are a little rounded, but the dimensions are close that I don't think there will be any changes from stock - the height is very close and may be a tad longer.
Here's the doors: Dr was emptied and blasted; Pass was left intact and grinding did the trick

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Dr door sill is now blasted and car back inside for more work before first primer coat.
Found more rust at T-top area. Leaving the car under a tarp while in grad school did no favors for this area.
Even though I'm finding a little here and there, I'm confident that I've caught it in time. After all, there is 215k miles on it - all mine

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Looking good. Only reason I said anything about the wing is because of your avatar pic.. Have you "used" the new wing yet?? The newer wings have to much air going over the top compared to the bottom, an that=lift like a plane wing.. I'll bet your going to want to change it if you do any highspeed driving. Ask how I know..
My 89 has 240k ish on her. I've put most of them on it.. I'm 2nd owner..
I'm a BIG fan of the formys

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

One of these from any autoparts place works great on cleaning up the weatherstripping mess. Used it on my vette and made the weatherstrip retainers spotless.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

This is what I used. It is a rubber bumper for a cabinet I bought in Home Depot. I also used a nylon lock nut to ensure it wouldn't loosen up. You could also use a bicycle brake pad.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

BTW - if you don't have the rubber stop on it, there is a chance your glass will catch on the screws holding the outer window sweep and get chipped on the edge.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Have not used the wing, yet. Just picked it up - it is forest green from a T/A. I placed it in position just to check, but am not ready to address it, yet. I didn't get any gaskets with it. Will have to make some neoprene ones myself, just so there's no paint on paint. Reading other posts, some sanding on the bottoms of the tips is needed.
Yeah, I do high speed driving. I'll post some picks of the wing next week - taking the weekend off to step away from it and relax. The labor hours are outpacing my wallet .
The wing is a little rounded/curvy and I thought of fiberglass work to make it align with body lines, but I have to draw financial lines somewhere and I think I can live with it. What "lift" problems have you experienced? My new LS2 will definitely exceed that on the straights at Road America.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

82tarecaro
That's an excellent idea on the furnture bump stop. I'll investigate that. Thanks.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I won't go over 140mph with the 91 an up wing on anymore for sure. The rear of the car feels squirrly with any other wing than the stocker. I could feel the rear lifting and had to use more steering input to keep it strait.. Stock wing on and the rear sticks like glue all the way to 200mph.
I talked with Jim Mattison about it at the T/A nats a few times and he confirmed what I was saying. His son did road racing with the 91-2 3rdgens back in the day and may still.
For high speed runs on the cars they had to modify the rear wing on 91-2 and 93-02 wings with a lil duck tail due to lift.
Do a quick search for pix of 3rd gens on the salt flats.. They use stock rear wings.

User Error 87

looks good lotta work...good luck

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

After thinking about aerodynamics on/under the wing, I think it would be easier and more aesthetically pleasing to extend the leading edge of the wing, rather than put a lip on the back edge (though I always wanted to do that). The 4th gen brake light causes probs (not insurmountable, but $$) and the rear edge is as far back as is comfortable. I think I'll keep that rear edge as is.
The front edge could be extended and even angled down towards the deck lid/hatch glass to close up some space; also, the casual observer might not immediately spot it. I wonder how much this would effect turbulance/harmonics?
I won't have any pics of mine for a few days, but here's a fellow member with some pics of his. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/memb...d-4th-gen.html
I agree more air is going under as the space is greater. I'll ask my body guy what extending and maybe angling down the front edge would entail. Anyone ever tried this or seen pics?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

If you extend the leading edge of the wing to the glass, you will be putting even more air over the top of the wing creating even more lift.
What needs to be done is make the top of the wing concave with a lil lip on the rear.
Just look at the stock wing compared to that wing. Measure both from the bottom front to top rear under the wings and then the top surface front to rear. On the stock wing the top surface is "shorter" than the bottom. That makes it like a upside down airplane wing creating downforce.

You'll be fine with the newer wing but for safety, just stay under 130-140mph.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

I'm breaking out the wing issue to it's own thread : https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...ml#post5187258

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

After sandblasting, found some holes underneath by the spare tire bulge. Mud work to fix that, and fixing the rocker arm areas.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Taping off the car, getting ready for Primer.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Used a zinc based self-etching primer for bare metal areas, before Primer.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

My car is once again, all one color! Greybird!
Three coats going on before block sanding. Again, using Chrom.... something or other (Dupont's best).

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Chromabase?

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Sounds right. I'll post a pic of the can on Monday. Letting the primer set till then - take the weekend off now that the car is one color, again!

My body guy (old school, former Tech School Instructor) says I should look for a shop with an oven and downdraft. Is baking on the paint still a necessity in today's world? What about my new leather interior/tires? He still suggests solvent paint vs water.
Going out for some more estimates, today.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Downdraft bake booth is nice but you don't "need" the bake part.
With some old school solvents its best to let them cure at their own speed and some like the bake.. How fast do you want it back together?
Of course there are MANY ways to do it, so take your time on finding a shop that will do the work.
Ask to see some pics of customers cars, If they are quick to show off their work, they are usually proud of the work they do.That can be a good thing.
Also, if you can, talk to some customers of the shop and see if they are happy with the work preformed..

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Called a friend in the auto parts industry, and he quickly came up with the "best" recommendation in the area. Went over and talked. They use Spies Hecker - the solvent. They were a little hesitant to talk 'time & material' but they are in the ballpark. Just e-mailed the paint code ( 81 WA8774) so they can price materials. I'm looking to see a 'T&M not to exceed X' kind of estimate.
The Mgr had a 'vette pic on his desk. He said he sold it last Aug (had purchased it from a guy in Ohio, near Mid-Ohio). Asked him what he has currently. Pulled up a pic of a black Boss 302 - must have been early on the list, 'cause he said they haven't even programmed the key, yet. I told him about Midwest F-Body renting Road America end of April, and he is very interested. I'll wait to see a better estimate. Don't know much about Spies Hecker, but online info is encouraging.
Mild winter here in WI has the body shops scrambling for business.
Not in a hurry to get car back, though would like it back in a couple of days - back to the 'barn' where we're working - buff, weatherstrip, re-assemble, etc. This will be a mask off and spray request (seal, base, clear).

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Spies Hecker is what most shops around here have switched to.
VERY good stuff. I'm doing my 70 Formula with those products 100% and they are great.
I recently had my DD repaired with Spies and the paint is perfect.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Here's a pic of the primer.
Got the quote back: $1100 material, $900 labor + tax= $2100

Block sanding this week and R&D on spoiler

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

I shelved the idea of modifying the wing for now.
Mounted it, and it doesn't look too bad. I can live with it while I recoup financially and get some better ideas, talk to more people, and find a cheap practice wing. Did anyone make custom gaskets between wing and deck? I'm extending the pillars so I will attach at four points. I don't think paint on paint is a good idea. Any thoughts? Would a small sliver of black look odd/out of place inbetween?
Hanging the doors and hood back on for transport to the paint shop.

WickedCrazy

How have I not heard about this? Can you PM me some details?

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

No need for PM. A kindly reminder to us all --> regularly check out the Regional Board section: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/mid-...ca-rental.html

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Looks like it's coming along nicely. Any progress since last month?

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Broke the hatch glass while attempting to put the metal trim bands back on. Don't know how, it just shattered. Picked up new glass, sanded & painted bands on the glass, this time.
Cost overruns will push the paint back til late summer . My body guy does great work, but he's pricey and only knows the correct resto way. I told him that this is a driver, but he marched ahead and did everything beautiful and costly, anyway. He's a friend, said don't worry about the bill (he knows I'll pay him), so it getting done right - just, too right for a driver. After the $$ pain is over, I'll love it, so, oh well.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Patience can be a virtue, but.......
Finally got the deck lid on the new glass and back on the car. Sanded & painted the bands on the glass this time. These pics are first ones - just bolted in the hinges, hooked up the battery, and this is what I got. Friends say it's better than anything GM did, but I think I have a 1/16" too much overhang. They are right when they say when the wing is on, no one will ever notice.
Should I monkey with it for that 1/16"? I'm tempted. On the driver's side you can see a little chip in the primer coat from the glass breakage incident.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Here's a couple with the wing set on, so I can shim the lexan supports for the stantions.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Still have pass door, 1/4 panel, and hood to finish sanding.

Thinking of rolling the lips for wider tires, too, while I am pre-paint.
Looks like early Nov for paint. Have to send out the bumpers for re-finish pretty soon.

QUICKCHICKEN

iTrader: (12)

wish my hatch was that close, if i were you id live with it. i'll never get my hatch right as when you are standing behind the car you will see the pass side area above-outside the tail lights is 1 1/8 and the dr side is just under 1 in. its visible and makes the hatch look like one side is higher than the other

to make it even weirder, both dr side and pass side panels are factory as both have the VIN sticker still in side.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

These plastic blocks are giving me trouble for adhesion and fiberglass adhesion. Should I go back to wood?

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Putting Neoprene gaskets between wing and deck lid. Using 1/2" thick for wing and have to sand/shape to fit the angle. Thin on outside of car, full thickness on inside. Neoprene has great vibration absorption.

Neoprene rubber is an all purpose elastomer and an extremely versatile synthetic rubber used in thousands of applications. Neoprene rubber resists degradation from sun, ozone and weather and performs well in contact with oils and chemicals. Neoprene rubber maintains its strength, flexing, twisting and elongation very well over a wide temperature range while having outstanding physical toughness. Many grades of neoprene are available depending on the application.

Using .093 thick under "feet," once I bolt and glue them, then glass over.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Purchased the two "samples" for $10 each (includes ship).
http://www.rubbersheetroll.com/samples.htm

Takes some patience to shape them properly, but there will be no paint on paint, and no vibration. In this pic, you can see the angle. On very back edge, I will use the .093 thick, just like the "feet."

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Got the bumper covers back, today. A little wet sanding and they'll be good to go.
Anyone run a laser jammer? I'm wondering where I would mount the laser jamming diodes.

Brian

sgtmac

Did you send the fascias out somewhere to be stripped or soda blasted? They look exceptionally clean. Also, are you running an LS2 in this car? I was wondering if you had done a write up on that engine installation(not stock for an 89, right?). Thanks.