Dogfrost9

I just recently Tore out all of the Carpet out of my 84 camaro with intentions of putting in some 4 Gen carpet and seats, however Now that the carpet is up Its painfully obvious I have a fairly excessive Rusting problem. It appears that the previous owner has already fixed some rust in the drivers floorboard with some sheet metal. But there is still a lot of surface rust scattered around and Also behind the Drivers seat area there is A lot of through rust that would not be as easy to simply patch over with metal considering how that area is not very flat.

Any Tips would be helpful

TA

iTrader: (1)

Anything between the engine cross member/shock towers and the lower control arms that the rear end pivots on is a load bearing area on these cars, and is subject to engine torque/twisting and serious loads if the car is driven hard at all. If you have any intention of saving this car, you MUST install the biggest, ugliest subframe connectors you can, and weld them in, or the decreased thickness of your floorpan will allow the car to tear itself in half, repair panels or not.

You have a serious problem my friend, you need professional help. Now you know why the previous owner sold it.

TA

madhatter

iTrader: (1)

i agree sfc are a must, as far as the patching goes. cut out all of the bad and weld in the new. for radius's either box them, or use a BFH to make them fit. consider replacing the floor pans completely. if you go that route go to your local body shop and see if they will order them for you, it is the cheapest route to get them. when done patching, or replacing use a rust inhibiting paint, por 15, or product like that and cover well. good luck

safemode

iTrader: (1)

I'm gonna have to go replace my drivers side floorpan due to rust at the seat mounts (my t-top has a chronic leak issue where it drips directly on the seatbelt and seat cushion, and this all travels down to the floorpan via seat mounts). Is there a lot involved in replacement of the floorpan? I'm just trying to figure out how much in extra costs it's going to be on top of the 250 dollar price tag for the part.

Dogfrost9

Would it be possible to just replace the Seat mounts themselves? Unless the actual floor pan under the seat mounts is rusted out.

And sorry i really have no idea how involved it would be to change out the floorboard, Im planning on cutting out my rusted areas on my floor pan, welding in some quarter inch steal where i can, coating it all w/ some kind of sealer on both top and bottom and then hopefully find some sub frame connectors to weld on like everyone has suggested.

safemode

iTrader: (1)

There is a subframe brace across the floorpan at the point the seats mount to the car. This brace is what has rusted out due to them not being painted inside (they are hollow obviously). This is welded to the floorpan, which is very thin sheet metal. (the brace is practically gone, and it's rusted straight through the bottom of the floorpan since this whole area did not get painted at the factory). I'm not sure if a new piece could be easily welded on or not, but after the labor and fabrication costs are done, i think it'd cost more than just popping a new floorpan in at 250 bucks + labor ....assuming nothing else is really involved, which is my question.

I dont have a welder, welding experience or know anyone personally who does.

irocman79

iTrader: (5)

buy another car look underneath before you buy make sure rust free. you need a whole new floor which will be alot of work. and you really never know how much rust is there until you start cutting. could much worse than you expect. Might not be able to cover it all with repacement pan. And if you miss any rust it will be back. its why the call it cancer.

safemode

iTrader: (1)

The roads here are salted, not cindered. They're all going to have rust to some degree. The rust that's problematic here is under the seat, hence the floorpan. Replacing it would be akin to turning the clock back some 5-10 years. The car is never intended to be something garaged or weekend driven (i dont have the space) so i'm not worried about bringing it to total rust free condition. I just need to make it so that my seat doesn't break free of the car anymore. A new floorpan will do exactly that.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

I have this same problem happening. But not this severe. I just have the passenger side rusted through the same way, driver side is fine.

I plan to have the floorpans removed and new floorpans installed. New from HTP is $500. Labor I see around 20hours if you take the car to someone stripped, so all they have to do is cut, remove and replace.

I am having my car either towed or driven to a shop without ANY interior besides dash and driver seat (minus driver seat if towed). To help keep down labor costs. I am willing to spend the $500 for the pans and another $1000 for install. If any more I may just see for a temp fix then just have my SFC's installed.

I will look at it more closely today after work. Get a better understanding of what I may need.

safemode

iTrader: (1)

it really takes about 20 hours to cut the old one away and weld in the new one with all that stuff already removed? What else is involved other than cutting and welding. I can't imagine it taking more than an hour or two to cut out and the same or less to weld in. I mean, the body shop has the right tools, they're not gonna try doing it with tin-snips. is there a significant amount of prep and post work that needs to be done?


ps. How much time do you think you'd save by cutting the old floorpan out yourself with a cutting wheel? The sheet metal is fairly thin, i would think that it would cut rather easily. Then tow it over to the shop and have them just weld in the new floor pan. (i'm assuming 1 not both floor pans)

kevmann

I am from the midwest near Chicago so any car over 10 years old is gonna be starting to rust. You get to a point when you have to ask how much is too much to spend? Then there is sentimental value. Mine has some rust in the floor pan on the drivers side. I think the main thing is to cut out the rust. Make sure you apply a rust inhibitor too. I would be careful about cutting it out myself. Like you said, they have the right tools. It could cost more if they have to fix your mistakes if you cut too big or whatever. I would make sure you are getting quality metal too because I have seen body panels rust within a year(could be a combination of thin metal and not being treated right). I am going to just get rid of the rust and have a panel welded in. But that obviously is not the right way. My goal is to just stop the rust from continuing.

safemode

iTrader: (1)

Well in the case of replacing the entire floorpan, you just cut out what the floorpan replaces. Not really a whole lot of thought process involved there, just the experience and right tools for the job. I was just curious as to the time involved, 20 hours for 1 panel when you have the carpet and seat and such out of the way already seems pretty steep. The panel seems pretty drop in as far as welding pieces to your car goes, so either 20 hours is a gross overestimation or there is a lot of prep and post work that isn't very apparent that needs to go on.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

20 hours was for me as an overestimate.

My mechanic works at $60/hr. I was willing to spend up to $1000 to have the old removed and new installed. Totalling around $1500 for new floorpans.

So 20hours @ $60hr is $1200. Roughly around what I am willing to spend.

Figure in them removing the trans, driveshaft, tq arm, exhaust etc. to get to the pans as well.

kevmann

Yeah I agree, for someone with even some experience I bet it could be done in less time.

safemode

iTrader: (1)

you gotta remove the trans and drifeshaft and such for the floor pan? the pictures i saw of replacement floorpans seemed to show just the metal consisting of underneath the pedals (on the driver side) back to right behind the seat ... there is a left hand and a right hand one. My assumption was that they were independent from the rest of the floor of the car, and from underneath, they look like separate pieces as well.

edit: do they consist of a single floorpan cut in half ? I know in older cars you can get the entire thing as one piece, i assumed because there was a lh and rh that it was somewhat less than what a full floorpan would consist of cut in half. hrmm. maybe i'm wrong there.

andrewmp6

I would cut out the rust holes weld in patches seam seal over the welds and paint the patches.On surface rust wire brush to knock the loose off and just por15 it.There is two ways i can think of why it could rust there water is getting in from somewhere or its been drove hard and the unibody flexed enough to crack or pop the paint/under coating off.

IROCKET4U

This is why it always makes sense to buy a 3rd gen on the west coast (WA, OR, CA or AZ--they dont use salt out here because we get very little snow) and therefore you wont find rust on cars out here.

IMO its well worth the cost for you guys on the eastcoast or midwest to ship a car out from the west coast versus having to repair rust which can cost a whole lot more.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Pictures from HTP. These show the floorpan with half the transmission/driveshaft tunnel. I am unsure if you get it as one piece if you purchase both at the same time but here they are.

This is the driver side floor pan (Only picture they have)

safemode

iTrader: (1)

Maybe it's not possible to put it in the car as one piece :-/

In any case, i guess the most important thing to consider is if you need to do anything to the pan other than weld it around the edges to the car. I can't imagine welding it up around that panel takes much time at.

Removing the trans is the only thing i would think could be labor intensive if you do all the prep work with the carpet and such (does the center console need to also be removed?). Though, You might be able to get away with with avoiding that by not cutting out the appropriate middle section of the floorpan assuming it's not rust damaged and modifying the new ones.

Dogfrost9

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camaro_boy123

ummm...... I know you are trying to save money but you are setting yourself up for more problems. First off. I had worse looking drivers side. I could literally get my whole body through the hole with ease. Secondly, If you go to any auto store and get some heavier guage sheet metal. and make a massive square and tack weld it in place. make sure you are lined up and run the beads. Use seam sealer all the way around the sheet metal on the top of the car as well as underneath to make sure it doesn;t come through. epoxy primer it from both sides and have done with it. i replaced mine with a new drivers side floor pan. Worked out great and fixed all my problems. On the passenger side i cut out the smaller holes and replaced it with a bit heavy guage sheet metal and welded that up as well. If you are planning on have it done professionally let them deal with it. Do not go cutting the side out and move the car. Its extremely flexable when you cut out the old. i know its already rotted out but moving it could put you in a worse case scenario!

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Wowser, mine is no where near that bad, just small 8x8 area's under the seats. Get new floorpans professionally installed. If I can wait 3 years to get my camaro (first car) back running you can wait a couple months to save for new floorpans.

Hope all goes well.

kevmann

The main thing(in my opinion) is to get rid of the rust totally, then treat it, and seal it so it can't rust again. Mine is bad there too so I am going to have to weigh my options. Good luck.

89ls1rs

i replaced both pans in my 89 rs. i did a ton of work to the car. it has an ls1 in it. it has a fiberglass body, some of you may have seen pics of this kit, but i bet few of you have seen one of these cars in person.
anyways, i bought my car for $200. it wasnt worth that.
after getting it home, and then finally on the lift, i go to touch the rusty floor, and its squishy. ok, there is no floor. like someone else said, there was a hole that i could easily fall through.
so ordered both floorpans. they are split in the middle, with one peice having a slight flange and overlap.
the reason it is so labor intensive, if you want to do it right, is you have to drill out tons of spotwelds. took a long time. maybe a professional that has done it a ton or has other special tools could do it faster, but 20 hrs is not a high estimate. spend 2 minutes drilling out each weld along the whole perimeter of the floor. then drill out all the welds that hold the seat braces to the floor( duh, they must be reused, unless you can find replacements) then you can weld the new floors in, and weld the braces to it. i made it sound simple, but it is labor intensive. i would not want to do it again unless someone paid me 1500. but this was my ca, so it had to be done. while the floor was out, we cut the frame supports that attach to the floor, and ran 2x3 straight to the back by the control arm mounts.
it fits right along side. then put plates on top and across the bottom( had to cut access holes above the rear seats area to weld the top plate, and the finally tied all that to the side with plates at the bottom back rocker area. add a custom trans crossmember, and the car was done. now its all new metal, and should outlive me.
i just registered here today, usually over on ls1tech.
i know you all want to see pics, i will try to find some...

89ls1rs

kevmann

Wow that is nice. Yeah it sounds like there is a lot of time consuming work. Maybe 20 hours wasn't so far off. Maybe a guy who does this every day could do it quicker but to the average person like me, it would take a WHILE.

89ls1rs

after doing it, i realize i may have thought of a better way. trim as much metal out with a sawzall as possible. then take a grinder and grind off spotwelds, and the little metal lip that was still attached will come off eventually once the welds are gone. you might be able to find a grinder that could remove the weld faster/easier than sitting there with a spotweld cutter. for any bracing that gets reused, you have to grind away the garbage floor metal to sperate it from what you want, or use spotweld cutter on those. i dont know if that would be any better. because you have to go back and grind off the pucks of weld/sheetmetal that are left behind by the spotweld cutter.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

I love it, bad *** car, bad *** motor, PVC intake...ha ha, even the expensive find cheap alternatives.

Really though, nice freaking car. I would love to have that wide body kit. Mm Mm Good!

safemode

iTrader: (1)

Basically on my car, the seat braces (i assumed they were part of the floorpan since they seem to be welded to it) are what's rusted away, and what allowed the floorpan to rust beneath them since it trapped water there. If the floorpan is flat on top (no place to mount the front seat) then that would be good info to know before hand, since i'd have to figure out a means of replacing mine.

I just figured the guy doing the work would just cut out the floor pan around the perimeter. Not drill out the welds. Sorta like your second suggestion, only i wasn't figuring on cleaning everything up to flat since it's the underbody, and it's not going to be seen and it's probably going to just rust out again. But the seat mount braces will be another problem.

89ls1rs

the seat braces will be a minor problem. you can customize some little brackets with a stud sticking up. tack them where they need to be, and mount your seat. the issue with the floorpan is that there is a lip that is bent 90 and attaches to the side, basically the rocker area.if you dont have the edges cleaned of spotweld plugs and other junk, the new floorpans wont sit flush against the side, and you will have a gap. i guess silicone could help, but do a nicer job in the first place, and it can be welde all across and wont need any sealer. i have a roller with this fiberglass body for sale. 1500

chevyracingrox

don't feel bad, your rust is roughly as bad as mine. same spots. check out my signature link and you'll see. I don't think you guys are thinking the same thing I am, that is: how can I get good floorboards cheaper than everyone else? really, 250? I don't have that.
I heard of a place from my friend for $60, but he's forgotten where to get them and now we're trying to figure that out. I might just call up the jy and ask if they have any floors I could use. my dad has a battery powered sawzall, you get the idea.

Dogfrost9

I am pretty close to being done working on my floors now. As you can see i welded in a fair ammount of scrap metal to fill some gaps. Used a good ammount of Silacon and "Great Stuff" and rubarized Paint to seal any smaller holes or cracks. I then Painted the Entirer floor of the car with some kind of anti rust paint called XO rust. Once that dried I started to Work on trying to Sound insulate my car a bit better by covering the entire floor with "Ice Guard" which is suposed to be for roofs but Iv heard its good for sound insulation as well. Iv also packed the fender walls etc.. with insulation anywhere I could to make the car more sound tight. Within the next week or so I should have the carpet and seats back in the car.

Mathius

Wow. That repair looks truly awful. You obviously had access to a welder by the pictures. Why didn't you do it right and save yourself the trouble? How long do you think that silicon is gonna last when your footboards are flexing since you only tacked them in a few places? And what size material did you use for a patch? Looks like some heavy crap.

You would have been better off using some thin stuff and riveting in a repair rather than what you did.

It's all covered up and pretty now, but that doesn't make it a good repair.

Mathius

irocinblue89

iTrader: (2)

I agree. Not to bust your ***** but I have little weld/fab skills and with some time and patience mine will look almost factory. I found a donor car w/ zero rust for $200. I'm not saying that you had the same opportunity but it's better to fix it only once than to fix it again because it was done wrong the first time. However at least you gave it an effort.

88-I.R.O.C.

iTrader: (3)

That's what i did! I was tired of looking at rust buckets, spent $900 more and started with a nice and clean WA camaro.

bigstack10

Oh my god!

this is scary, i only have like 3000 to spend on my car for now

and that was mainly gonna go to fixing my engine up, Wonder if i should just fix my rust issues first

88-I.R.O.C.

iTrader: (3)

I would fix the rust first, especially if you can still drive it under your old power. The engine goes...too bad...the floor gets worse, You'll be spending more, or be lookin for a new project car.

bigstack10

Oh Man, well There goes my superchargered 3.1 idea atleast for a couple months

luckily i don't believe mines is that bad i haven't ever got a chance to check it out, i wish i had a dang garage so i could just pull my beat up carpet out and check it out but i know i have rust isses because there is rust on lil spots around my car and i have rust behind the quarter panels

also My trunk has started leaking a couple weeks ago since i put on a new wing so im guessing i have rust issues in the trunk area too

man dogfrost i feel your pain but being as these thirdgens are very well aged its something alot of us have to go through

bigstack10

89ls1rs that car is very nice

nothing i can think of to make it look any better


don't mean to change subjects, but i would love to see how a GM notchback combined with that bodykit looks

88-I.R.O.C.

iTrader: (3)

Crawl underneath with a flat screwdriver and a flashlight. Poke at anything suspicious, if it feels soft, you know what's bad. Good luck!

bigstack10

Damn! Thanks

don't mind getting a lil dirty for my baby

Dogfrost9

Thats What I did underneath. The heavier metal on the top was mainly just to give plenty of support so my feet to fall through the floor, and your right the silicone probably wont last that long But i also have a sheet of aluminum underneath and not to mention all of that ice guard was not just laid in there, i torched the rubber to get it close to melted before I laid in on the metal so its also sealed in that sense.

But I apreciate all of the constructive Critacism lol. For the record though, I just put in Carpet and Seats from a 1996 Camaro and WOW does the interior look damn Near Brand New, Couldn't be more happy. Still have a lot of Interior Trim to paint and put in but its still lookin good, and a lot less noisy.

userchemical

a sheet of aluminum?what for?you so sandwiched rust between two pieces of metal. and then used silicone to seal it shut? so basically you just fed the rust some more metal, have fun destroying your car.

TA

iTrader: (1)

Every time you do something like this it is a learning process. None of us was born knowing it all. Those little boxed areas are structural parts, so I definately recommend Subframe connectors or your repairs might tear.

Good luck
TA

Dogfrost9

Now have the carpet and Seats from a 96 camaro, and Found some matching seat belts from an 89 camaro at a scrap yard. Center console is original except for the carpet on it. I went to a giant carpet warehouse and found the closest color they had in stock. Painted the Trim with SEM flexible paint. Color was Graphite i think.
Putting the carpet in was relively easy, had to trim up a couple of areas to make it fit. Its almost a perfect fit except for areas towards the front of the car, most notably the passengers side.

Right now Im working on getting the Door pannels to line up and actually fit, harder than I had hoped. Aside from that I just need a headliner and a Steering wheel puller so i Can swop my current one with a Grant Steering wheel.

Mathius

Wow. You just managed to convince me that it's worse than I thought. All of those layers are just a place to trap water and/or oxygen, promoting rust. I would bet half my paycheck, knowing how inexperienced that you are that you didn't coat the insides of that metal with a weld thru primer, so you have bare metal exposed where air can get to it. Which means your rust will be back with a vengeance.

Clean and cut all that crap out and do it right. You'll be happier. Just butt weld in a piece of metal and leave it. It will be plenty strong enough if your welds are good.

Mathius

firebirdriver89

I had rust damage on my drivers floor. When I took the carpet out most of my floor went up into dust. It was amazing how it disappeared!

I am welding in a floor out of a donor car tomorrow. Finally! If I had it to do all over again I would buy a new floor pan. I have a ton of hours in getting the old floor out and ready for the donor floor. I have even more hours in getting the donor floor out and the spot welds drilled so I can remove the pieces of subframe that I cut off with the floor. Which by the way, a Metabo with a 6" cutting wheel is not big enough to get through the subframe at the feet or the rocker panels where the rear subframe is. Had to cut what I couldn't get to with the Metabo with a torch.

I know if I would have bought a new pan, I would be done by now. I also would have more hair!

Make sure you use the weld through primer. Napa has it. If you ask someone at Advance Auto or a place like it, they will give you a funny look. And grind off as much other rust that you can get to and use the Por 15 paint.

I am also installing the subframe connectors.

All of those previously mentioned suggestions are really all a must if you want it to be a long term fix. Don't shortcut this stuff. A short-term fix is a waste of time and money. If you don't do it right, don't do it.

firebird896

Where is a good place to get some new floor pans, not from classic industries or a jy. Any ideas?

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/sh...ponents_1.aspx

firebird896

Damn thats even more