Manic Z

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone read this months Camaro Performers magazine? The editor (Nick Licata) is calling out us thirdgen owners again....
We need some of latest COTM owners to be featured!

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

That magazine is still around?

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

That was a very fitting article, it was my last issue as my subscription expired....due to thier lack of thirdgen coverage.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

Well someone tell them to come to thirdgen.org and pick one of hundreds of car's that are magazine worthy.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

Mine has been a readers ride twice. I want a feature!

84z28BlueDevil

darn...too bad im overseas and my ride is in the paint shop...oh well...maybe next time

BADNBLK

iTrader: (11)

If only it was that easy!

BADNBLK

iTrader: (11)

Your car is LS powered... and gorgeous! Explaination complete

LB9Iroc87

I WANA BE IN IT!!!!

z28yourstang

iTrader: (1)

i read the article and was disgusted by the fact that he trash talked thirdgens by saying they were weak and underpowered and lacked performance. he even went on to say that the highest torque rating ever in a thirdgen was 250 ft lbs......he is the editor of a camaro magazine and doesnt even have his facts right....super chevy also suffers from lack of thirdgen coverage....iv come to the conclusion that the only way we will get serious recognition is if we have our own magazine

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I read that article to. Dosen't matter I still love my thirdgen and will keep driving mine. Our cars are cool to leave stock or go completley modified.

I wish they would do some more features with thirdgens that were stock, modified TPI style, or LSX swapped. These cars are new enought to have many modern features. They are also old enough so that many of the modern heavy saftey equipment items are not on there.

Thirdgens are still the best handling Camaros made period. We also can install and work on Gen 1 to Gen 4 style motors. That guy that wrote that article is an idiot. Our cars were produced with the small block Chevy engine. If its an old school Gen 1 or the newest LSX engine, they all can me modified to performe at much higher than stock levels.

iansane

iTrader: (1)

Really? Are you serious? It was the 80s. Thirdgens can barely keep up with today's subcompacts. They ARE weak and under-powered. Don't dilute yourself just because you own one.

You realize why the article is written that way, right? It's so people of the thirdgen community will get peeved and actually send in pictures/info of badass cars. Don't be the little kid on the playground that screams and runs if he doesn't get his way. Prove that thirdgens can be amazing cars and build something that's jaw dropping.

This whole, "this magazine sucks because they don't show thirdgens" crap is getting older than thirdgen hate itself.

LB9Iroc87

I did read that article and it didnt peeve me off at all, take a look at most all the Thirdgen camaros running around. THEY ARE JUNK, our cars were fairly underpowered, but we do have a good cheap platform to build on if we want. Now lets send in pictures to prove how great our cars can be! Take this hatred as MOTIVATION to make you car better then anyone else'.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

If Licata can't find any decent thirdgens to feature, it's because he isn't looking, plain and simple. I will tell him that directly if I ever get to meet him at any of the events I attend. This site is full of awesome thirdgens, and there were plenty of them on the HOTROD Power Tour this year. I did not see any on the Motor State Challenge last year, but I'd guess that there are some other guys at respected events with cool thirdgens. There are thirdgens featured and covered in other magazines like GMHTP, not sure why it's so hard for Licata's staff to find them. If you guys want to see some cool thirdgen coverage, keep an eye on future issues of HOTROD.....

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

Send em My way Cali

micktroup2

GM built what, 800,000+ 3rd gens? They are a dime a dozen and we have all seen the rediculous state some of them get to before they end up in the junk yards.
The 1st gens were ideal , simply modded platforms, ideal for Super Stock, Pro Stock AND stoplight challenges. The early 2nd gens similarly.
With the stoneage computer systems that 3rd gens were produced with, the smog laws that we have had to deal with if we mod them(for those of us in the 'progressive' states), do not make 3rd gens the ideal first choice to hotrod. Plus, a new Prius or Sion can show up just how gutless a stock 3rd gen can be!!
Having said that, we all have our 'dream ride' in our minds when we look at our cars- we see the potential if no one else does!
My car is lowered with urathane bushings throughout and handles like it is on rails. Next up is paint, interior and engine and it will look gorgeous enough for some snooty magazine publisher!

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Underpowered? Compared to what? the L98 and LB9/T5 cars were faster than all but the rare high end, purpose built first gens, and easily out handled all of them by FAR!.....heck they were THE best handling car out there for a long time. The LT1 4th gens were a tick faster, but not by much. It wasn't until the LS1 cars that the envelope really began to be pushed. ....no car outside of the last 10 years can compete with the technology and R&D that's out there now. You can't single out the thirdgens for there performance. The shear volume of thirdgens has kinda led to a negative stigma, but it's not fair to base that on their performance.

iansane

iTrader: (1)

Keyword WERE. This is 2012. Not 1990. You definitely can't single thirdgens out because of their performance but we're talking about selling magazines. A TPI 350 with headers, tune and crappy exhaust isn't going to grab anybody's attention.

It's perfectly fair. Thirdgens are just not impressive cars without a significant amount of work. If nothing else, just in maintenance. Which you'd have to be ignorant to think is properly done to even a 1/4 of thirdgens left out there. YES thirdgens are great platforms, YES they can be made to be impressive but 90% of them aren't. And to the general populous, 99% of them aren't.

akanitro

iTrader: (2)

I will have some pics after next weekend when I pick up the GTA at my families other garage.

2007xl50

I was just talking to my buddy yesterday about my car and 3ed gens overall. They are cool cars and handle well for their time, but do not get all that much respect. Last summer I had a 72 base Nova coupe, granny green on green, nice looking mild 307 whit some Cregar SS's. The car was nice, but had alot of mud in it. Most of the time when getting gas I would be there over 20 mins, because everyone wanted to see and talk about it. My 87 TA is a nicer car by far and no one really cares to see it. I love 3rd gens, you all love 3rd gens, but most don't they still see them as cheap white trash cars. Here is a pic of each.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

My point was simply that thirdgens aren't in magazines, and it ain't because of performance. There might be MORE 1st gen and LS cars that are built for all out performance, but like someone mentioned earlier, if ya can't find the nice thirdgens, then you're not looking. There's plenty nice ones, even if most aren't. Quite frankly, this site is SO MUCH more of a thirdgen resource than any magazine ever could be, so I actually don't care what the magazine's feature, but let's be clear on why there not in there, and as I said, it's not because of performance.

iansane

iTrader: (1)

Meh, I disagree. I would say there is only a handful of magazine feature quality thirdgens on this site. (mine not being one of them) Maybe 15-20 cars that would definitely be and under 50 that depending on the photography and writing skill could be feature cars. Nice cars? Yes, tons of nice ones but I guess I just expect feature cars to be all out builds. Not necessarily wild cars, just quality with personal effort put forth.

And actually, I think we were arguing different points. I was referencing 'z28yourstang's comment about thirdgens being "weak and underpowered" because, well...they are. It takes a lot of money/time to make a thirdgen compete with cars of today in speed. They're unimpressive in most peoples eyes because people still see them as slow no matter what happens. At least around here.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

I believe everyone on this thread is fundamentally right in some aspects. I read almost every magazine with a GM bent, and the only time I see a third gen in them is when they are lsx powered, or highly boosted, or both. Funny thing is, is if you build a gen I powered third gen, even if it is better, more powerful, cleaner , etc. then their muscle car cousins in every way, it's just not up to par in the eyes of the editors of these magazines. Mostly because in their hayday, the cars they approve of are just that. The cars they approve of. Thats the way I see it anyways.

Manic Z

iTrader: (1)

I just don`t understand why a magazine called Camaro Performers doesn`t go out of its way to cater to ALL generations of camaros. I know i pretty much gobble up any magazine if a article or feature relates to a thirdgen, whether it`s Camaro Performers, Car Craft, GMHTP etc.

Why not draw in fans of every generation? If 1st and 5th gens are the most popular, then fine, give them the most ink. But why not have something for everyone?

red rock

iTrader: (2)

I emailed Nick last month about this, he said there would be more articles in the future, which I doubt. My thoughts would be if more of us emailed him, maybe he would have to print more about third gens. Here's what he said;
Thanks for taking the time to write in.
The reason of the editorial was to point out that just because you own a clean, stock, third-gen, the car is not feature worthy. Same goes for second, fourth, and fifth-gen Camaros. With the exception of a rare, nicely restored first-gen SS, Z/28, COPO, or ZL1, there is just isn't any reason to feature any of those cars in stock trim.
I agree with you on late secon-gens, the same thing applies. They all need some sort of performance and/or appearance upgrades to make it into the magazine.
BTW- be patient, the July issue will make the third-genners very happy. At least I hope so….

All the best,

-N

red rock

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, I forgot to type his email address. Nick.Licata@sorc.com

iansane

iTrader: (1)

Don't just email him that you want thirdgens, forward the contact info and pictures of cars you think should be featured. Instead of just complaining about things, give them something to print.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

another dimension to keep in mind here is that much of a magazine's income is from advertisment. They need to feature cars that stimulate people to buy from the advertisers in the magazine, otherwise it's not worth the advertisers money to pay to be in the magazine. The thirdgen crowd probably buys the least amount from advertisers as any other group. We are likely the hardest group to get money out of, so catering to us doesn't pay the bills. We are also by far the smallest group of followers, so again, it doesn't pay for a magazine to invest ink in us. Like it or not, these things have to sell on the magazine rack and cater to the masses. Our generation has still not shaken the white trash ****** image, and until that happens, our cars will not inspire tons of coverage because it's not what the vast majority of readers want to see. I think the cars are starting to shake the image, but only modified ones that have been brough up to respectable performance by today's standards.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

While this may be true, the fact that Mr. Licata is the editor and has stated in his editorial that he is no fan of the third gen., has alot to do with what gets into the magazine. With that being said, I think with all the performance third gen's in this forum, there are more than enough cars for Camaro Performers mag. The fact that maybe not many "quality performance" cars have been submitted to the mag seems to be his beef. I read the mag, and there are alot of people asking to see more third gens. in the magazine, so I think there is a good interest for them. I'm sure if Mr. Licata wanted more third gens, there would be, all he has to do is look for them. Like here maybe?

2007xl50

Like I kinda said in my first post, it seems most people don't like or don't care to see 3ed gens. When talking cars with people and I tell them I have a Trans Am, they perk up and ask what year. I say 87 and it's like OH! ok then, I show them the pix and they say nice car, but almost every time the second gens come up-like the Smokey and the Bandit car is sweet, yeah I know and agree, but try to find one as clean and low mileage as my car and you will have 3 to 4 times the money it as I have in mine right now.

Yeah my car is not fast-hell my 2012 Kia Koup SX will beat it in every way, but that's not always what it's about. I think we still need to let our cars get older and then they will be more of a big deal. I mean the later second gens did not get much respect till the last few years so it's a waiting game really. We just need to enjoy our cars and love them because we are into them and screw what others think.

NathanLewis

I think in time, I'd say, in 15 years (which is a long time) thirdgens will be a collectors car, and the value will have gone up.


Of course though, i'd like to keep mine forever, and keep it in great shape.

scottmoyer

The value has already gone up. The problem with Camaro Performers magazine is that they don't give equal time to all generations. People have been emailing and sending in letters for years and they haven't changed yet, so what makes you think they will start doing more if we contact them more?

My thought is that the magazine is the only Camaro only magazine out there and there is no reason they can't cater to all generations. I also don't understand why they can't cater to all types of cars in the different generations. So what if a car is bone stock? If they can get 100 pages together on two generations of cars, imagine what they can have with all five generations featuring stock and modified cars. They would increase their membership by a considerable amount because you would have owners from all five generations, both stock and modified, interested in the magazine. They could also get sponsorship money from collector insurance companies, restoration parts companies and also modification companies. They are very narrow minded at the magazine as Nick has pointed out in his editorial ramblings.

Just imagine a magazine with all five generations featuring cars that are not only modified, but also featuring stock cars. They could be a really cool magazine, but instead they are willing to lose subscribers by only discussing heavily modified cars and complain that they can't find third gens that fit their requirements. You can only feature so many mods before that crowd gets bored also.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

Third gen's are getting more and more respect. I have seen more and more modded ones in my area. And I always have people telling me how badass my ugly beat up camaro looks and sounds.

slow old thirdgen>fast 4th or 5th gen

noisy88

I have pretty much stopped reading that magazine because I am getting a bit tired of the overtly modded 5th gens and 1st gens. I will give respect to the builders though, even though what they show is not my cup of tea.

Third gens are becoming more and more popular it seems as I have been seeing a lot of nicely built ones in my neck of the woods as of late and many nice stock ones. I seem to be the only one running around with the junky looking one.

This site is all we third gen fanatics need.

vengetta82

I guess my beef with this, besides the fact that they do under-feature TG's, is that the Third Gens, albeit offered with a 4cyl., and are definitely not the fastest Camaros ever, are seemingly more popular and powerful, not to mention better styled than the late 70's early 80's snowplow Camaros. They feature plenty of those, modded and stock, so why not feature nice stock and modded Third Gens? Prime example being the IROC that sold at Mecum after being found in a trailer with, like, 4 miles? I guess my big thing is if they feature every other body style in the mag in modded and stock form, why NOT a Third Gen. It's annoying.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

[Rant]

....So I just read the feature on the silver IROC on the Camaro Performers website. We need to be careful what we ask for, because if they are going to feature thirdgens like that, our generation will continue to be dragged through the mud, and deservedly so if that is all people see.

I don't want to personally bash the owner of the car featured, he can build his car however he wants. This is not a bash on his ability or his car, it's a bash on the level of cars Camaro Performers is willing to feature.

The car featured has no HVAC box present at all! Just an open hole in the firewall. The heater core inlet and outlet are just exposed hanging out of the firewall. There are exposed wires running all over and nothing is organized. There are 2 zip ties around the upper radiator hose holding the fuel line out of the accessories. The engine bay is not the same color as the car, it is a scratched up white mess, the top of the passenger "frame rail" is filthy dirty. The carb swap is also not exactly a high end mod. It's 2012, GM stopped using carbs on thirdgens in 87, so its easy to see how many people view a carb swap as a step backwards.

On to the interior, there is no loop retaining the driver's seat belt and it's just hanging. The faded spot and empty holes are visible in the headrest as is the tear in the lower driver side bolster. There is a red rocker switch and plastic stand-off from napa attached to were the foglight switch should be. The tach is hanging from the bottom of the HVAC vents, and speaking of the HVAC vents, they are all dusty and dirty looking.

I'm going to get flamed for this I'm sure, and I again want to state that I'm not making a personal attack on the owner of the car. I'm assuming the car is a work in progress, and thats just fine, so are my cars. However, a feature of this quality (featuring an unfinished? car) only further degrades the perception our generation of F-body and it greatly erodes any respect I had for the technical correctness and attention to detail of the magazine.

Don't even get me started on the suspension kit they added to the white thirdgen.....


[/Rant]

Brisk

iTrader: (25)

I agree 100%

BADNBLK

iTrader: (11)

ZZ3 Z28

I noticed some of the same things you did. I showed the mag to my wife and she just shook her head like I was crazy. Only you, she said. Well I'm glad it wasn't just me.


.

Manic Z

iTrader: (1)

While I agree that the thirdgen featured is not up to the standards of what a `feature car`should be, let`s not forget that the theme of this month`s mag was `reader`s rides`, and what the everyday gearhead is driving around on the streets.

That`s the way I saw it anyway.

Richboll

Nice start but I hope his headers have no leaks!

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Reader's rides is no excuse to compromise the quality of cars covered. Not all readers drive incomplete projects like that, I know I certainly don't. I put way too many miles on my cars on the street and at the track to be holding the fuel line to the radiator hose with a zip tie. It gives the magazine and our generation of cars a black eye. Covering an "unfinished" car as if it were a feature car is like putting bad gas and oil in your car.

Manic Z

iTrader: (1)

Fair enough. That`s a good point, though ripping on him for having a carb is unnecessary. He's being featured in Camaro Performers, which features carbed cars. You were featured in GMHTP, so i can see why you might make that comment.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

Look, we all know the kind of cars that grace TGO's pages, There are some real beauties in here. The point is that, Nick Licata doesn't care for the third gen camaro at all, he has stated it in his editorials. If he wanted to feature a well put together performance third gen, he wouldn't have to look very hard. He has his preference cars and that's all he's going to feature. If he wanted to bolster sales, we all know he should feature more of all generation of camaro's. There was not 1 camaro that came off the line with 426hp untill the new camaro's started competing with the mustang and challenger. He talk's about performance, every camaro featured is enhanced with power. With that said, there are many third gens with performance motors that could be featured, but as an editor, he would have to make that call.

ZZ3 Z28

You know I think every car line has this problem. I love early 1960's big Pontiacs, Bonnevilles, Catalinas, Grand Prixs. But what do you see in magazines? GTO's.

If some one wants to increase revenue and profits, they prodice a product that some one wants. Obviously the editors at CHP don't want to produce a product that we want so people like me, don't buy their magazine.

BADNBLK

iTrader: (11)

Well CP is at it again. Posting pics of IROC bashing poster on Facebook.
http://www.facebook.com/camaroperformers

Hard to believe a "Camaro" magazine would openly bash a section of its readers. LAME!!!

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

I read this months section on the blowback that he got for saying those negative remarks about thirdgens.

I think the only way to get the message across to the magazine owners that thirdgen supports don't like this bashing trash talk is to stop buying the magazine or supporting their efforts.

On this website we like thirdgens - thats one of the reasons we are on this site. The vendors that have listings on this site may not like thirdgens either but you would think that they would be smart enough to keep their mouth shut on that so that money would keep flowing in to the company.

Camaro Performers is a business. In the magazine business they get most of their money off of adds and sponsors who pubilish and post material in the magazine.

If the word gets around that Camaro Performers angered a good number of people who purchase products from some of these vendors the magazine will do the one of the following: remove ignorant people who will make the magazine loose money, shut down, or change all together.

Half of the stuff this guy said was to get a reaction. The best way to get back at a snot slinger is to get a fan and blow all that snot right back at them. People that talk the most crap never are able to back it up. When that ignorant light is flahsed back at them they self destruct. If we made the magazine owners correlate a decrease in magazine revenue back squarly at ignorant comments like this editor has made (and others like him) he would be mud in the industry as a whole.

It's one thing to say something positive to get people to react. It's another thing when you say something from the stand point of the group you represent that causes a negative blowback that could decrease your organizations finacial standing.

With the way the economy is on a global scale - no company - if they are smart - would want to get involved with something or someone that will make them loose money.

All that needs to be done is start a petition to remove this editor or else we (as a car group that helps keeps them in business by giving them our hard earned money) will stop supporting their magazine or anyone who posts in it or online due to editors negative coments. Maybe we should start that here.

You can have different opinions on which car that you like better. I don't have a problem with that. The issue here is that this is a business. If you have a business why would you want to upset customers who will take their money else where and leave you behind in a cloud of dust?

With most buisnesses (that are for profit based) the objective is to increase the bottom line. If the owners of the magazine knew that there would be a siginificant loss of revenue that was largely associated with one person upsetting their cash flow in to the company - they would get rid of that rusty component within the company.

Business is cut-throat at times and people get eliminated for things all the time everyday. Just seems counter productive to me to be in a business that serves 5-generations of Camaro follwers then anger a good portion of the people who make up a good percentage of where the cash for the company comes from. The next question becomes hey, if he hates thirdgens who or what else will be on his hate list?

scottmoyer

The best way to screw over Nick and his childish behavior is to reach out to the advertisers in the magazine. If the advertisers sell parts for third gens, contact them and let them know what the magazine is saying/doing and they will pull their advertising dollars. That will hurt them more than a few subscriptions. In one magazine, these are the vendors that sell parts for third gens or could be used for a third gen:

Summit Racing Equipment - 800-230-3030
EBC Brakes - www.ebcbrakes.com
Bosch
Tire Rack - 888-727-8201
Eastwood Company - 800-343-9353
Scarallo Motorsport Wheels - 800-wheel99
Centerforce -
B&M - 800-544-4761
QA1 - 800-721-7761
Camaro Central - 800-990-1969
Year One - 800-932-7663
RedLine Oil - 800-624-7958
Wilwood - 805-388-1188
Hotchkiss - 888-735-6425
Andy's Auto Sports - 800-419-1152
Dakota Digital - 888-200-9338
Boze Wheels - 866-634-4626
JBA Exhaust - 909-599-5955
Forgeline - 800-886-0093
California Car Cover - 800-423-5525
Hurst - 760-598-2244
Hawk's Third Gen - 864-855-2694
Classic Industries - 877-422-6376

There's a few advertisers and a way to contact them. If you really want to shut Nick up, this is the way. Don't just talk about it and expect the other guy to do it. Pick up the phone and let the advertisers know! Tell 'em that you won't buy from them as long as they advertise with CP. If only one call comes in, then it's no big deal, but if the phone rings and they start hearing from lots of people, they will pull their advertising.

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

What is the best way a group of us can contact these companies and let them know how we feel?