Guest

I have decided to go with a better intake in place of my tpi. What is the best intake I can get that I can basically bolt on? I know it is slightly more complicated than that, but I want a good intake that I can basically just un-bolt my tpi, and bolt on the new intake. I was looking at a big mouth intake but they seem to be discontinued. Oh, I am keeping the stock hood so it must clear and the cheapest for the best is what I'm looking for. If that turns out to be a $1000 then so be it. If its $20, that's cool too. I just want a better intake, for a reasonable price, that I don't have modify half my engine just to fit and function properly. Thanks in advance guys.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

You can stay TPI with your own computer with this intake. It can be ported, and you can port your plenum and get aftermarket runners;http://www.streetsideauto.com/p/edel...old-base-3860/ Either way it's going to cost. You could go with LT1 intake and aftermarket heads. So mant choices it depends on what you want. Just a couple of idea's for ya.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Mini ram maybe. But just about anything other than tpi needs fuel lines. I like holley weiand stealth ram better but it may touch hood and require alittle clearancing. Stock throttle body may touch fuel rail fitting but its an easy fix.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Define "Better"

TPI is a great intake, what do you need better? What are you doing with the car?

Daily Driver, Bracket car, autocross, etc......

Any intake swap will require mods, expect to spend at least $600, weither its a Stealth Ram, mini Ram, converted LT1, etc....

Guest

Everyone bitches about the tpi as a handicap. I love it how it is, and it's just going to be my daily. I want some more oomph! though. Would porting the plenum and larger runners accomplish that? Full suspension is already done, and I will be porting the heads and adding 1.6 rockers and a mild cam.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

With porting your heads and a cam & rocker, The 350 likes to breath, porting the intake is great and will help it breath, but so will a good set of headers and exhaust. Think of an engine as a air pump, needs air in and air out. I have done all you can do to a TPI getting it ready for bigger heads and a cam. I have ported the Edelbrock intake, SLP runners and the plenum, bigger injectors, harris chip, 52mm BBK , even have Ram Air. Some may say that was a waste of money, but i did it a little at a time. Now waiting for winter for new heads, cam, and rebuild the lower half. The top half is done. Other than a rechip when I'm done.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Yes the tpi is a handicap for an all out race car, but for the street it's great!

Port the upper and lower, headers exhaust and a good cam, will make a great daily driver!

Guest

Awesome, exactly what I wanted to hear =). Yes I forgot to mention the exhaust, it was the first thing I did. 1 5/8" headers, custom y pipe, three inch cat back.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I ran a stock TPI, ported and siamesed TPI, Holley Stealth Ram and now an Accel single plane fuel injection. For the amount that the upgrade parts cost for TPI you can probably buy a Holley Stealth ram. There are plenty of threads and articles about the TPI vs HSR and all of them had said that they had lost nothing in the 60' times because there was much less wheel spin to worry about. I enjoyed driving with the HSR and single plane more than the TPIs. The installation is a piece of cake too.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

If you guys want to promote TPI, please do so on the TPI board.

The purpose of THIS board is for those who already know why they don't want TPI, and to discuss the alternative options.

Back to intakes, on my current combo (650+ hp 412" sbc) I chose the professional products/procomp singleplane intake. It's almost a 1206 port out of the box, literally needs about 10 minutes of clean up with a porting drum. They are well under $200, I think $160 I paid for mine on ebay and fuel rails are about $55 for the "kit". (then you just need a regulator). The 4bbl throttle bodies are under $250 now, or you can use an elbow and an LSx throttle body as I had on the Corvette a few years back.

Lot's of options today if you actually want your 80s iron to keep up with a 2012 V6..

-- Joe

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Well, when asking the OP why he wanted another intake, his reason was because people said the TPI was the weak link. When asked what his plans were, in an effort to find the best intake for his application, he stated "Its just going to be my daily driver, and I want more oomph. "

IMO, the TPI intake is the best for his application, regardless of where he posted.

Your set up sounds great. A 650+ hp small block is impressive! But is it your daily driver? The OP has a stock engine and wants to keep it a daily driver.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Joe, I looked at the pro products intake and almost got it. The Accel throttle bodies (4 barrel carb style) are new around $300 and flow at least 1000cfm depending on the model (they also accept the tpi style sensors). I was also under the impression that corvettes could not use a single plane AND a intake elbow because of the low hood clearence. I know there are a few intake elbows that might work but I had heard members say those elbows wouldn't support horsepower numbers over 400.... Whats yours like, any pics? I'll show you mine if you show me yours!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

This is what I ran on the Corvette:

http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/s...-ls1/complete/

This was made by aaron at intakeelbows.com in 2008. The edelbrock elbows (cast) don't flow too well, but sheet metal elbows, if made properly, and if they have enough cross section in the bends should have no problem supporting lots of power.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

No, a 2012 is, but there is no reason why it couldn't be, if it had A/C, and wasn't a thirdgen.

I see your point, but the OP should go back to the TPI forum and discuss how to make his TPI better. That is my point.

Sinking money into an L98 is a bad investment. Once you solve the crap TPI intake, you still have junk heads and a cam to contend with. By the time you resolve all that, you've got 20 year old piston rings. Like I recently told my buddy Dan about his mint '89 GTA. Do headers, catback and STOP if you want it a daily driver. If you want to build a hot rod, you're going to fill a 10 yard dumpster with the take offs.

-- Joe

Guest

Wow. You seem to have lots of love for what most people consider the best thirdgen engine. I just sent in my heads for a full port and valve job. Just bought new pistons. Mild cam. 1.6 rockers. Forged crank. Plus the intake work/replacement I'll be doing. Full exhaust. Full suspension. Silenced most all of the rattles and squeaks on the inside. Sounds like a good daily to me when it's all done. I have a friend who runs 12's on his L98 and it's his daily. Nice car. If people want to spend money on a fun as hell L98, why not?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Decades of experience, trying to help. I've learned from my own mistakes, and watched countless members spend thousands of dollars on foolish things.

The L98 heads should have been sent to the scrapyard. Aftermarket heads can be had that flow 240-300 cfm starting at $800.

If you're doing the short block, set it up for the right quench, I usually go .005" into the hole, add a nice roller cam and a short runner intake and you'll go as fast as a new v6

These cars are nice daily drivers, much like a model T was in it's time. I prefer them as a sunday car, you know, when the weather is right, no traffic on the roads, and at the track. If you put the right motor combo in them, and the new suspension as you suggested it would be a really nice daily driver with enough power to deal with today's demands.

-- Joe

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

And my daily driver is a 1969 chevy c10, my 88 iroc is my hot rod.
Different strokes for different folks.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

True. I imagine the driving conditions might be different to. I'm 45 minutes each way in rush hour traffic, on the freeway.

-- Joe

ScottyRock

iTrader: (3)

HSR best bang for the buck, easy to install, lots of them used $200-$600 about $900 or so for ALL NEW Parts, I love mine it made my car more drivable, first thing is to ditch the Holley FPR and get a Kirban FPR best mod I have done to my car so far

Dakota W.

If you're planning to put a different engine in your car down the road I would either wait until then or buy an intake that is going to be compatible with your new engine, something like http://www.holley.com/550-823.asp But if you're planning on keeping your current engine, just port and polish your tpi plenum, get some siamesed runners from SLP, Edelbrock intake mani, and some better flowing heads for more "oomph".

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Thats the problem with upgrading TPI right there. For the price of an edelbrock tpi base alone he could get an HSR. Even used SLP runners cost $150-200. Upgraded TPI only belongs in a heavy truck, van or towing vehicle that needs gobs of low end torque.

Guest

Torque will win stop light races. If its my daily driver, that's the kind situation I would find myself in mostly anyways. But as my daily, I think street racing it would not be the smartest idea. Had never really even heard about HSR, but after a little research it looks like the way to go. Think I'll just save my money and go with the better option.

Dakota W.

Torque is good for acceleration, the more torque you have the less pedal you have to push, the less pedal you have to push the better fuel economy, better fuel economy is what you would want from a daily. Plus, for a city car are you ever really going to use the horsepower you would gain from something other than a TPI?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Let's see. 330 foot lbs of torque at 3200 rpm on a stock L98 (TPI).

At 3000 rpm I have over 550 foot lbs on my blown singleplane.

Your advice to leave it alone and polish it is probably best. If he's asking the questions he's asking than he is not ready to dive into this just yet.

-- Joe

cuisinartvette

Joe is right on all counts
Know the TPI guys get miffed at hearing it but the intake system is what it is.
330 at 3200 isnt all impressive. Not bad but still.

The LTR have great airspeed which makes for good throttle response faking one in to thinking its making more torque/power than it really is. They have their place... sounds like hes going to step up to the HSR he should enjoy that.

Kinda like those sound boxes that play race car sounds you plug into your cig lighter.

88BlackZ-51

iTrader: (2)

and i have around 565 foot lbs at 3000 rpm's with a miniram......

a few friends in the past tryed to make the TPI work, and just threw in the towel and switched to a MR or a HSR.

best thing they ever did.......

Guest

Glad I could get some different perspectives. But seems like I'd just be pooring water into a sieve with tpi. Hsr sounds pretty sweet so im gonna go with that for sure. Oh by the way, the L98 has 345 ft/lbs.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

With a tail wind, on a good day, 20+ years ago.

-- Joe

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I was going to get into a rant about the overemphasis on "torque" because people dont understand the inherent relationship between torque, horsepower, and performance. It's classic TPI apologists saying it doesnt matter that they dont have hp because they have torque... who cares if you win a race to 30mph? If you've got more horsepower, right stall, and the same suspension setup, the higher power car will win everytime. It takes power to turn those crazy 60 foot times all the fast guys run, and no amount of TPI "torque" curve is going to fix that.

How do you compare the single plane to the HSR? The prices seem fairly comparable unless Im missing something.

You by any chance remember the part numbers for that stuff, namely the ever ubiquitous " "kit" " ? I was pricing out Holley intakes/rails/etc, this sounds MUCH more affordable. How do you feel about single planes vs an HSR?

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I unfortunately do not have any performance times to directly compare an HSR to a Single Plane. I went with a single plane direction because a single plane is supposed to give the most uniform air distribution. I am wanting to supercharge my next engine, so air distribution would be more important to me then. I had heard some members saying that with the HSR and mini ram especially the rear cylinders were leaner. And I'm betting in Joe's case an HSR wouldn't fit well enough under a corvettes hood.

RedGut86

This might be based off of some poorly written edelbrock advertising stating that their lower profile elbows lose no power (compared to the tall one) utility 400hp, which at that point there are benefits to the taller, higher flowing elbow. Not that they necessarily can only support 400 hp.

It is a shame as I would like to see those used more frequently and get a better baseline for performance. However I'm still not convinced for most street applications a good efi tunnel ram (hsr, xt) is not the best option.

GTA matt

iTrader: (1)

In Joe's case, I believe it was the air distribution problems you mentioned with the miniram and boost. His old miniram now resides on my motor. IMO, the absolute best bolt on you can do to an N/A L98. Prices have really been dropping on these lately. Seen one for $600 with TB and injectors a while back. For an all out or boosted application a single plane is better, but for a 3-500 hp build, you really cant beat a MR or HSR.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

get a singl plane and a elbow..try 400 FP TQ at 1800rpm, never droping off,only going up 580, by the time i hit 5800rpm...and the HP well

i have a 4" cowl hood

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Well, here is my take on it.

The first HSR's to hit the store shelves had very small ports (they lined up with a felpro 1204 gasket) and not much material to port. That was one strike. The second problem, which really isn't an issue on naturally aspirated cars, was the obscene angle the air had to turn to get from the throttle body to the runner stacks.

A lot of guys over the years have run HSR and have done quite well.

I think singleplane intakes are better due to the more direct port entry, however if you look at the combo I ran on the C4 Corvette a couple years back with the elbow and such, that probably hurt performance to get the package to fit under the stock hood.

I had the Miniram on the Corvette as well. I ran it for a season naturally aspirated with a cc-306 cam, and it worked wonderfully. When I put the blower on it I had tuning issues. The horizontal draw intake (LT1, HSR, Miniram) is problematic with forced induction. Even in stock form, the LT1 cars had 'cylinder trims' in the stock tuning to deliver a smaller or larger amount of fuel on certain cylinders. (SFI cars). Naturally aspirated isn't much of a problem, but when forced induction things get very different very quickly.

The intake I'm testing right now, which so far I think is outstanding, is the cheap chinese Pro products / Procomp. I'm running it with some holley rails and a 4bbl holley throttle body, an ATI "hat", and a P1SC. I switched to this intake because I needed to run a 1206 intake gasket for my AFR 210 heads, and the holley (see other thread) wouldn't cover the ports without welding.
Honestly, after comparing the intakes side by side, the chinese intake is better than the US made holley.. Go figure..

Manifold:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PC-SBC-Polis...r#ht_697wt_954

Fuel rails:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170803053933...#ht_830wt_1188

I did mine different, I'm using holley rails, and I have T's in the front so I have two cross overs front and rear. I had the holley rails, and the bolt/injector spacing is the same.

Chinese throttle body:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Machined-Bil...#ht_2814wt_954

for $219 shipped you can't beat that. Again, I'm running a holley unit because I had one, but I'd have no problem running one of these. They don't have an IAC however a remote IAC housing is like $50, which technically gives you the choice of running a stepper, fast idle valve, or pwm (ford) depending on what engine management system you are running.

Another option, which I was tempted to do on the Z28 but never did is a wet-flow dual plane (naturally aspirated). The price is coming down on the 4bbl injector bodies (some with 4, some with 8 injectors). Not TBI, think like fast EZ-EFI.

-- Joe

-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

very nice i asked about that intake a while back but noone had any real feedback on it

what size gasket are the ports when it ships , 1205?

a smuch as i love the look of my tpi intake on my twin turbo iroc it is just costing me power and i was seriously looing into doing one of these with an elbow but that throttle body is so damn cheap id prolly do that

actually it would come down to whats cheaper the standard ls throttle body and elbow , or the 4 bbl unit and a 100$ carb hat

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

No, it was more like a 1206. It just needed a hair of radius on the edges, which took like a minute each port with the porting drum.

I'll see if I have a picture somewhere. I layed out the 1206 over it, and used a sharpie.

This won't fit under a stock hood, btw..

-- Joe

Dakota W.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I have a fugly daytona hood on mine, but my combo would fit under a 2" cowl no problem.

A holley singleplane (1204/1205 port) would fit under a stock hood no problem.

http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/singleplane/19.JPG

This is a '91 firebird with stock t/a hood I built in 2005. 358 cid, trickflow heads, holley singleplane, 4bbl. Break in before adding the blower.

-- Joe

ibmtech

iTrader: (1)

Other than the TPI, you are going to have a custom burned chip. And to think that you can get someone who can burn a custom chip for your car that will run 100% perfect the 1st time, think again. IMO there is a 10% chance that it will work great like it does with your current setup.. I have burned at least 100 chips for my friends car and it is almost impossible to get a great tune unless the car is sitting right in front of you..

Guest

I already Have the ability to custom burn chips

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

If you're not building your own engines, and doing your own EFI tuning, this isn't the right forum

-- Joe

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Am I imagining this or is it really that much harder to tune our older OBDI systems compared to the newer stuff? Is it because there are more people tuning the Gen III+ stuff, or is it because they use MAF systems? Or is it because the systems themselves are just that much better?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

It depends. The Delco stuff, be it MAF or MAP is just fuel and spark tables, pump shot (ae), and a few other things. Fairly straight forward.

MAF has it's benefits and downfalls. Given the choice, I'd probably prefer to tune via a good MAF with a MAP onboard for triggers. (i.e, boost fuel, boost spark retard, etc).

The early MAF stuff is easy to tune, but has a higher limit of 255 grams/sec, which makes it harder to fuel a high horsepower combo.

-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

thanks man that would be great, as far as not clearing the stock hood id just cut a hole in my current hood till i got a cowl hood. my current hood is damaged and dosent line up correctly but thats one of the last purchases on my list anyways have more need for a 12 bolt then a new hood lol

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Anesthes,

the hurricane intake appears to be discontinued, leaving the super hurricane the only cheap efi intake avalible. They say it's not for engines smaller than 400cu in.
Do you think this big intake would work well on a typical street 350?
What size intake runners? 200cc?
I can see why you would need this volumne on a blown application, but for a na street smallblock, would it be a little much?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I have a picture of the manifold with a felpro 1206 traced over it. I think it's a hair bigger than a 1205, but not quite a 1206. I'll post as soon as I can

A felpro 1205 is 2.09 x 1.28, where a 1206 is 2.21 x 1.31.

To answer your question, I think if you have 170-180cc vortec or edelbrock/holley heads this isn't the intake for you - instead, go with a holley 9901-101-1 which is a 1204 port.

If you're running AFR 195s on a 350, in stock form the intake should almost line up perfectly.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I havent done the testing but i am one to think that intake manifold size has little effect on driveability in efi. Now runner length changes torque curve characteristics but on a single plane intake, the plenum volume and runner dimensions shouldnt hurt much in an efi application like they do in a carb. Air velocity and signal on the carb for fueling can be too low for carb applications to drive nice at low rpms. Efi doesnt rely on that as much so it should be ok. But i'd love to test it. But a typical 350 using smaller than 195 cc heads really doesnt need a huge port intake to feed it so its just wasted potential imo when intake runners are sized to large

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

On a batch fire setup, I don't think it would matter. We're putting fuel on the back of a hot intake valve, and the rush of the valve opening atomizes the fuel.

On sequential, where velocity has more impact on fuel atomization, it might play a bigger role.

Here is a pic of the intake with a 1206 gasket

-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

hmmm might be a lil large for my heads but ill figure something out.

im using a pair of ported 882's ( yeah i know u guys hate them) but they make good power ontop of a boosted motor, hell any head can, but this looks like my best bet for getting away from the tpi intake

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

882's ? I don't hate them, It's just like. Why remodel the house to then buy a 19 inch black and white TV for the living room ?

The good news is you'll probably see more boost with the 882s

-- Joe