Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

jeez that car is an animal!! look at that torque. 439wtq?? thats 60 more than my 383, that must feel great. 403whp is STOUT and smog legal? wow

thats as much power as my car with more torque. you'll be mid 11's at 118-120 depending on the air and weight of the car

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I was impressed by the area under the curve. With the SuperRam mods it allowed the horsepower to extend out quite abit. We shortened the runners a good 2 1/2 inch and it did not lose any torque. In fact it gained some.

That might be due to the taper we put into the intake manifold. Also opening up things allowed for better cylinder filling. Next up will be the exhaust upgrades. I'm thinking he will be in the 420 to 430rwhp range when it is all said and done. This is with a SuperRam and a Dyno Don exhaust system.

Orr, the shorter runners are doing you in on the torque. You are swapping torque for horsepower.

RedGut86

That looks great. Looks like I know what my next round of mods will be. These are great results!

I don't know if this translates to anything in the real world, but it is interesting that your previous dyno run from 3.6-6.2k RPM took 4.17 seconds.

The new intake travels the same RPM in 4.02 seconds.


82FirebirdTA, Is there any chance I can get those dyno files (the numerical outputs) e-mailed to me? I'd like to put them into Excel and look at the numbers a bit more. Thanks!

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

Wow, thats what I'm talking about!! Those numbers are great.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

82Firebird car tips the scale at just over 3200lbs with a T5 trans with 3.73 gears. If he drives the car, he should be in the mid 11's @ 118-121. But for right now he doesn't have the *****.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

thats pretty light. How big is the driver? car should definately trap near 120.

Still a 10 bolt rear? that T5 wont like that power either

Agent13

iTrader: (6)

Should be 3400 with driver.

3.70 9 bolt. G-Force T-5.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

82FirebirdTA is going to need some driving lessons to get that car to run into the mid 11's. But I will be happy for him if he does it.

skinny z

My little 9 bolt (albeit a little old and about fifty 1/4 mile passes) didn't last past my first sub 13 second run with an automatic in front of it. (3750 lbs) That's with 400 hp on a good day.
Keep us posted and good luck.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"I don't know if this translates to anything in the real world, but it is interesting that your previous dyno run from 3.6-6.2k RPM took 4.17 seconds.

The new intake travels the same RPM in 4.02 seconds"



Good observation. More horsepower under the curve.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

thats gonna be a fun combo to drive tho... T5 and those gears is a nice setup for that motor

3400 with driver is somewhere around 50-80 lbs lighter than me now, but i'm not 100% sure what i weigh. That car will MOVE

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"3400 with driver is somewhere around 50-80 lbs lighter than me now, but i'm not 100% sure what i weigh. That car will MOVE"

The way I see it using Orr's car as a base we could be looking at very low 11's. When all is said and done Alex's car should be in the 420+ horsepower range. That alone would be 3 tenth quicker than Orr's care. With the weight that should add another tenth.

Orr's car ran a very healthy 11.4 seconds with more in it. So it looks to me that Alex should be around the very low 11 second range with a 10.99 posible with fine tuning of the motor and suspension.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i ran that with 1.55 60 foot. Getting that with a T5 and 9 bolt will be hard to do But if you can get close it should move well.

Plus my run was in abit hotter weather. Should improve as the air cools IF i ever run it again without the nitrous

RedGut86

This is gonna be a screamer. It should really like those 3.70s and this isn't sky high RPM either. A blast on the street and the track for sure.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...ShiftChart.jpg

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i should have saved up and built a big bore 400+ motor

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

The part in red is the biggest deal of the day. To all you jokers who think cats and EGR and AIR tubes suck horsepower, read it and cry. It is possible to have horsepower and pass the sniffer test, too.

And since nobody else has done it, I'll go ahead and pat myself on the back for my excellent tuning on the car.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The thing I'm confused about, why does the power fall off after 5200rpm or so?

That 280XFI camshaft should be making power until 6,000 RPM. Yet it starts falling off after 5200 or so.

While the improvements over the stock unit are remarkable, I think it has too much cam for the intake.

I understand the need to run the SMOG intake in CA, so rather than telling you to throw the super ram away I'm wondering if you guys could build a TON more power going with a shorter duration camshaft?

-- Joe

JERRYWHO

The car has a single cat and a small SLP cat back exhaust on it. I think a dual cat and some exhaust work will move the peak up to about 6k.
The 5600 rpm is only 4 hp down from peak and you know a 400 is flowing some air at 6k. Dual cats on a stock 350 is good for about 10hp. so on this combo I can see 20hp. or more when you get the exhaust flow up to match the cam and intake.

Still good job.

Jerry

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

280 isnt huge for a 406 but could support 5800-6000 rpm hp. I just wasnt sure if the intake manifold could do it. WIth that siamesing it looks like it is capable of flowing enough air and has the runner length to support high rpms. Cam i think actually may be on the slightly small side.

That cam in a 383 miniram car should peak at 6200-6400 on a good day. 406 is just gonna tame it down to 5800 or so, so it appears to match the intake well. just my opinion

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I agree with Jerry. With the exhaust upgrades I think we are talking something in the neighborhood of 425rwhp. This should put the car in the very low 11's when all is said and done.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

One more thing and doing what the intake manufacturers do this modification is 50hp better than the stock version. Look at the horsepower difference at 6100 rpm.

YenkoST

iTrader: (5)

Orr...remember that your 383 put down ~400rwhp through an Automatic and different dynos so...all in all...I believe your 383 giving a manual behind it would be in the ~420-430 range. So, should be a good race behind the two cars.

However, I am impressed with the torque of that car and will be interested in seeing the final version once the exhaust is done on it.

shaggy56

Man you got ***** hacking up a set of superram runners. Ok so the mod is good for about 30hp then. Seems like the powerband didnt change much though.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"Seems like the powerband didnt change much though."

The motor made more torque and power through out the power band. The power also held on much longer with it being 50hp to the good over 6000rpm. We are waiting to get the exhaust done. I think the numbers will go up accordingly.

shaggy56

I meant the actual dyno curve rpm wise didnt change much other than the gains. Im sure exhaust will affect things but it wont be a good comparison at that point since you will totally lose the data between the old exhaust and new exhaust and before and after mods.

Dont get me wrong I see the obvious gains. Just be interesting to see what the mod itself has on a well breathing exhaust system. would have been nice if you did the exhaust first. Either way you gained something.

Im a true believer in the intake mod but it would be nice to see more data on the runner mods you made. You definately are a pioneer when it came to the runners but I dont know how many people are going to hack their runners since Im not even sure if they are replaceable.

When you get the exhaust done if somehow you can get a stock intake back on so you get a more of a back to back comparison.

Good work and thanks for thinking out of the box.

Long Beach Z-28

iTrader: (1)

Hey Guys, If Shaggy56 thinks that those Superram runners were "hacked", he is really gonna s--t when he sees what Allen and I are going to be doing to MINE!!!!!!!! Later...

shaggy56

You guys are animals!!!

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"You guys are animals!!!"

One could say that.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Nice!

Is it SD or MAF ?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

SD.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

Very nice work with the intake, but do you think a stealthram would be a better choice for somebody that doesn't already have an intake manifold? I'm building a 408 right now with the newer AFR195 eliminators, custom ground hydrolic roller cam with comp type R lifters. So I can bring the RPMs up as high as 7k. The machinist and I are thinking that the motor should make 520ish hp and have a huge torque curve. I'm leaning more towards a ported HSR since it's hard to find super rams and when you do they're expensive then combine that with the amount of work done here to make it flow enough to support the motor. Anybody's 2 cents would be appreciated. Also I'm going to run a T56 with 4.11 gears.

Thanks Will

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I like the stealth ram. Port it out and it should be good to feed that motor

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I would agree with Orr in your case. It will be a lot less work to port a HSR versus the work required to modify a Super Ram to fit your needs.

With the HSR your motor will develop less torque but you will still have plenty with your built 408. The HSR will more easily allow the motor to spin to 7K and move up the power curve. I think the Super Ram could do it also but it would take a lot of opening up, effort and money.

JerryWho is working on a SuperRam that will be fully opened up for his 408 motor. Hopefully he will have it done by the first of the year. I can't wait to see the results.

Nothing but a bunch of animals out here. Hahahaha

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Jerrywho is Porting the heck out of his Super Ram to make it pull 7000rpms on a 412cu engine.

I'm just trying to do the same thing with my 358cu engine with the same port work except not to simese the runners but open them up as far as I can get them. My manifold as already been welded up and now it is ready to be full ported. My Trick Flow heads will be fully ported also. The engine with a Comp Cams 280XFI should be able to spin as high as 6500rpms hopely with the Super Ram. If not, then I will go with a fully ported and simese set of SLP runners. That should do the trick.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Just for the record, I think you guys are doing some killer work on the ported intakes.

However, in the interest of saving time AND money, I would recommend a single plane EFI for 7,000. It wouldn't take much clean up to get your cfm AND you wouldn't have to creatively butcher it to get the rpms....

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

It will not pass smog in California. Remember these are California cars

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Yep, passing smog is the driving force for what we are doing.

WIll36

iTrader: (12)

[QUOTE=1bad91Z;3923857]Just for the record, I think you guys are doing some killer work on the ported intakes.

However, in the interest of saving time AND money, I would recommend a single plane EFI for 7,000. It wouldn't take much clean up to get your cfm AND you wouldn't have to creatively butcher it to get the rpms....

[/QUOTE

Also I haven't seen a 3rd gen with a single plane and a good sized aircleaner under a stock hood. I live in the suburbs and there is a restriction on how tall of a cowl hood you can run and right now it's only 2 inches. Based on what 2 of my friends had to do just to run a regular airgap manifold and carb setup on their cars (either cut a hole in the hood or get a cowl) I don't think that would be a practical solution for me. Plus I like the more subtle look of the stock IROC hoods.

4mul8r

Ok, so I've gathered from this thread that you have a 406, modded super ram, 280xfi cam, SD, t5, Dyno Don headers, 2 1/2 y-pipe, single cat, 3 inch SLP cat back, and 3.70 9 bolt. What else did your dyno combo consist of?

With the 4" mufflex, where did you find a 4" cat? I've been looking for one for myself as my y-pipe is 4" and my mufflex is 4", and I don't want to bottleneck everything down to 3" just to go through the cat. Further what muffler are you going to be running?

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

The finished exhaust will be 2-2 1/2" pipes into two 2 1/2" cats into a 4" catback (because that's what he has) into a 3 1/2" Magnaflow.

As you can see by the numbers with a single 3" cat system the new system will be more than adequate.

4mul8r

What was the complete setup for the dyno run listed in this thread?

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

The engine has the old style AFR 195's.

TA

iTrader: (1)

Well, I had been considering doing something similar, and you pretty much erased any reservations I had about loosing too much torque. I guess you just ran me out of excuses.

Thanks for the great post

TA

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

great work and some great info! I would love to see this car in action

4mul8r

Any updates?

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

No, no updates.

The racing season is pretty much done, as the tracks close anyway even though the weather is still good.

And the owner is still saving his money for the new exhaust.

David 91RS/Z28

It's all in how ya launch!! It can be done!! This has been an interesting writeup....anything new?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

No updates that I know of.

David 91RS/Z28

Why not use a 4" Magnaflow? Or even step up the pre "y" pipes and cats to 3" then use a flowmaster y that merges that into a 4". Then run the 4" all the way. Or is that not legal in stupidfornia? At the very least I would keep everything in the catback the same size. Sure wish you guys could run long tubes out there!! Imagine that setup with long tubes, 3" y, and either a 3.5" or 4" catback?? It's really unbelievable the difference in long tubes vs shorties!!

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"It's really unbelievable the difference in long tubes vs shorties!!"

Hopefully I will be able to test out the difference. With my new motor build I'm seriously thinking of running it on an engine dyno and using a carb setup. If this comes about I will compare the short tube headers I will be running on the car against the long tube engine dyno headers.

The results should be interesting. The only snag I can see is if the short tube headers will fit on the engine dyno.