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I purchased Hooker 2460 headers and their 16767 y-pipe directly from Holley during the Holley Days. The headers are very nice, but the y-pipe is pathetic. I doubt Holley will publish my scathing review, but at least the people here will know.
Usually, I won't post negative reviews or derogatory comments. The "if you can't say something nice" thing. But when a product is a total disaster, like this y-pipe, then people need to know.
I've seen plenty of pictures and videos of the real thing installed, so I know what's it's supposed to look like and how it's supposed to fit, and this one is an obvious FAIL, an embarrassment. For the price, this y-pipe should be show-quality, but instead, it looks like scrap metal that was cobbled together by children.
That's just the passenger side. The driver's side is similarly hacked but not as badly. Unbelievable, yet it's right there.
Looks like it might've been sold previously, the customer chopped it up to try to make it fit his project, but then returned it, and Holley returned it to stock without inspecting it. If not, then that means someone at Holley actually built it like this. And worse, someone higher up approved it. I find that hard to believe. Come on, Holley, WTH?!
I phoned Holley immediately, also emailed pictures, and they sent me a label to return it, so I did. But instead of replacing it with a properly built y-pipe, as we had discussed, they issued a refund. Do they mean to tell me that the rest of the current stock are all built as badly as this one?
I know, there are plenty of other brands available, better, worse, long, short, etc., and I considered all of them carefully, but I chose this combo for very specific reasons.
There is, however, another y-pipe that is believed to be interchangeable with the Hooker: Doug's 901, and it's $100-$150 cheaper too. But while most of the mixes and matches I've seen have worked ok, some of the results were less than ideal, so I thought it best to go with a matching brand. Looks like that might be Doug's now.
So I phoned Doug's to find out how their 3320 headers and 901 y-pipe compare to the Hooker 2460 headers and 16767 y-pipe. The products seem like copies, but Doug's claimed that the brands and the manufacturing facilities are not at all related. When Doug's headers arrive, and before I return the Hooker headers, I'll post pictures with side-by-side comparisons, and we'll all see for ourselves.
I can attest to the Dougs D901 fitting the Hooker 2460s, good piece fits like a glove. I did modify where it meets the intermediate pipe by adding the Flowmaster piece to make that a 3" connection instead of 2.5" though.
I'll probably end up keeping the Hookers and using Doug's y-pipe. Most reviews for the Hooker headers say they used Doug's y-pipe. And most reviews for Doug's y-pipe say they used Hooker headers. Kinda feel bad that Doug's headers are so ignored. Holley has been ignoring my emails about returning the headers anyway, and I don't feel like phoning again, yet, because I'm not likely to remain friendly, so I'm emailing daily.
I won't be using the cat-delete straight pipe, so that part doesn't concern me. I'm only interested in the Y, itself, and the 2-1/2" size also works for me, which is why the Hooker y-pipe being such a mess is so disappointing. But whether I go with Hooker 2460 or Doug's 3320 doesn't matter.
And all of this has me curious to see a side-by-side between Doug's 3320 headers and Hooker 2460s, so as soon as I know the fate of my Hookers, then I'll get Doug's here. No complaints with the Hooker headers, but I see slight differences between the two brands in real time pictures, which might make Doug's headers and y-pipe fit the car just a touch better than Hooker headers with Doug's y-pipe.
AFAIK, yes, Don is still making his. Everyone says his are the best, and I don't doubt it, so I've considered them, as well as most other 3rdgen headers/y-pipes. And I'm not interested in long tubes, except for one particular design, which would be PERFECT, but it's not designed for the SBC, and I doubt off-the-shelf brands like Hooker or Doug's would be interested in investing in something that might end-up being a one-off. Too bad, too, because 3rdgen offerings haven't changed for decades. We need something fresh, and that's what I'm creating, but I'm having to do it with products that are of the standard design, because I'm no "Dyno Don." But who is, right?
Don owned 3rdgens. That's huge for being motivated to create something, and his products appear to be the best of the standard designs. His y-pipe offerings are very nice, but none will work for me, as-is. Also, they will only fit his headers, which is understandable, since most y-pipes only fit the headers that they're made for. But his headers are so precisely made that they won't work easily for me either. But I can very simply accomplish my project with the Hooker or Doug's products I've mentioned, and achieve outstanding results, providing they're made correctly, not hacked-up scrap like Holley sent me.
Now, if I knew Don, which I don't, and he was interested in taking on a fairly simple semi-custom job, which I doubt he would be, and he didn't try to talk me out of what I'm doing lol, then I think he'd be proud of what we'd create. Problem with that is, then everyone would want him to do custom work, and I think he'd prefer to enjoy his retirement years relaxing, traveling, and occasionally building headers on the side, rather than working full time again, so I have no intention of asking him.
I spend months, even years, studying parts for my projects. And as I've said, all have been considered, and I can easily accomplish this project with off-the-shelf products... to an extent.
There is another option, my favorite one. It will LOOK the simplest and LOOK the best, but it will actually involve the MOST work, and it's likely to yield the LEAST amount of gain, though it would still be a nice improvement over stock. So as much as I would LOVE to do it, it just wouldn't be worth it in the long run.
But at the moment, thanks to Holley, I'm having to work from the back to the front, so no headers/y-pipes are off the table yet. But, at least, it's a simple project, so once the header situation is settled, it won't take long to complete.
I heard back from Holley today. It was about another matter, not the one in this thread, but it concerns something that all TGO membership might want to know about, so hopefully people are viewing this.
I emailed Tech Support yesterday with specific questions about some of the other headers they offer for 82-92 Camaros and Firebirds, current products and the possibility of anything new in the future, and this was the reply I received today:
"Unfortunately, we do not carry any headers for 3rd gen Camaro any longer. Due to new rules by the EPA, we had to discontinue any of our headers for the 3rd gen Camaro until further notice."
I guess that explains why so many products are listed in the "Clearance" section. Pretty sure they still have plenty of stock, for now, so if people are interested in Hooker Headers, then they better place their orders soon. I hope whatever it is that it won't affect Doug's too, or our choices will get very slim.
Now, about the topical situation in this thread, it looks like if I want to return the headers I received with the scrappy y-pipe, then I'll have to do it on my own dime. We'll see. I still have 60 more days to deal with it.
"Unfortunately, we do not carry any headers for 3rd gen Camaro any longer. Due to new rules by the EPA, we had to discontinue any of our headers for the 3rd gen Camaro until further notice."
.
That explains why the part numbers I have for headers don't show on Holley's website.
There is still inventory available through Summit. Or was as of a week or two ago.
Long tube headers, duals and transmission crossmember as a bolt in.
EDIT: Summit states they will be "special ordered" for you. That ends that then.
"Unfortunately, we do not carry any headers for 3rd gen Camaro any longer. Due to new rules by the EPA, we had to discontinue any of our headers for the 3rd gen Camaro until further notice."
Curious. I've heard of nothing new impacting the header/exhaust industry from EPA. Not saying it isn't true, but you would think automotive forums everywhere would be blowing up with the news if this had happened. It would effect anyone in the business, not just Holley, and not just 3rd gens.
Last edited by DynoDave43; 01-22-2023 at 05:12 PM.
Reason: Added "EPA" and fixed a typo.
Curious. I've heard of nothing new impacting the header/exhaust industry. Not saying it isn't true, but you would think automotive forums everywhere would e blowing up with the news if this had happened. It would effect anyone in the business, not just Holley, and not just 3rd gens.
Check out Holley's website and search for any headers for a 3rd gen. You'll find a couple of shorty length strays but the rest is gonzo.
Holley's Gen 1 choices:
BH13201
BH13202
BH13203
No longer a searchable part number.
As for other manufacturers and other platforms, this has long been a threat a threat of the EPA and the RPM act. It's proving to be true. I'm sure it's happening elsewhere although not being connected to elsewhere in any meaningful way, I can't comment on the impact.
Oh, I believe you. I don't need to go search. I just am surprised that if an EPA rules changed forced them out of the business, that we have not heard more about that. Should be effecting all makes and models of the same era, not just third gen F's.
Oh, I believe you. I don't need to go search. I just am surprised that if an EPA rules changed forced them out of the business, that we have not heard more about that. Should be effecting all makes and models of the same era, not just third gen F's.
I edited my previous post to include: As for other manufacturers and other platforms, this has long been a threat a threat of the EPA and the RPM act. It's proving to be true. I'm sure it's happening elsewhere although not being connected to elsewhere in any meaningful way, I can't comment on the impact.
That said, I'm sure this is something that isn't advertised by those manufacturers. They'd prefer to keep it quiet until a resolution, if it's possible, is worked out.
I won't say it's forced anyone out of business but it's certainly suspended their distribution of parts already made and ready to go.
I've replied to the Holley tech whose email I quoted, asking for more specific information about this. His reply to my initial inquiry was only one day, so hopefully he'll get back to me tomorrow.
I also told him about this y-pipe fiasco, sent him the pictures and asked if he wouldn't mind getting involved to see what's going on, because the returns department has apparently blown it off. I'll bet tech didn't know anything about it and whatever might've been going on with this/these y-pipes, but they will now.
01-16-2023, 12:18 AM
