unseenT/A

Hey all,

This is one of my first posts on this board,i've lurked around for quite awhile with another forum name but i lost that login and email address so i made a new one.

I went through alot of research before i bought the Patriot 383 450hp motor and couldn't find ANYTHING,well swallowed my pride took the plunge and ordered the motor

https://www.patriot-performance.com/...&cat=69&page=1

I'll start off by saying that Patriot Performance is great to deal with,i didn't want the MSD street fire distributor that was included with the motor so i had them upgrade me to the MSD Pro Billet they had no problem with doing so and ofcourse i had to pay for the distributor lol.

I also had Patriot Dyno test my motor for an extra $100 which i personally feel that should be included in the price of the motor.

It took them about 2 weeks to get it to my door,my first impressions were good.The motor was fully saran wrapped and bolted to a skid with a crate around it.And it looked absoloutley amazing i couldn't wait to get it in the car.

The motor also came with the water pump and harmonic balancer attached which is a big plus,because the last crate motor i had it didn't come with which was a PITA.

Well it was time to get the motor in the car which i had my mechanic do, nothing engine related happend during the installation went right in bolted right up as expected!

Before i knew it,it was time to crank her for the first time,with the oil pump primed and everything in the green my mechanic turned the key and she fired right up although running alittle off,after playing with the carb and doing the timing she was purring like a kitten!

The first drive was good,no noises,no smoke and overall amazing to be behind a 450hp engine for the first time.

I'm now about 1,500 miles in and have had no major problems.As of right now i do hear abit of valve train noise.I've been told it was normal due to the aluminum heads,but i'm going to check the lifters anyways i'll report back.

She's truly a beast and pulls all the way through.

I'll be uploading pics and videos of the engine tomorrow,but for now heres the car it went in.

Fully Built Turbo 400 Manual Valve Body
BMR Torque Arm and Crossmember
Full 3inch exhaust with magnaflow muffler

unseenT/A

I don't think theres anything wrong with them,i spoke to Patriot Performance and they told me that i may need to adjust the lifter clearence via rocker arm adjustment.

Not a big deal,planning to check it out some time this week.

Ron U.S.M.C.

Nice,nice,nice. A engine I can only dream about.(For now) Can you try to get a sound clip with the engine photos? I would love to hear the motor with the Magnaflow exhaust.

unseenT/A

Sorry i didn't upload anything today,but i'll definitely have some videos uploaded tomorrow.

burnout88

I am guessing a carb setup and not fuel injected?

unseenT/A

Yeah it's carbureted

awilson82

Patriot makes great products I have a set of their heads on my car and love them. Good company.

74134bird92

I also approve of patriot, and have a new set of heads from patriot in my budget. My buddy has been running them for a while now on his 455 build.

unseenT/A

Well guys,i took the car for a drive earlier this week got back and the exhaust sounded different and heard a heavy valve/ metal sound.

Took the valve cover off to find this. NOT TO MENTION they aren't even scorpion roller rockers as the spec sheet says,they're part number # PRW-35001 a quick search on google finds that they're $129 overall cheap rocker arms.I'll see what patriot has to say about this monday morning.

Doom86

Do you have 3/8 or 7/16 studs?

The only information I could find on those is that they are rated under 350lbs and your springs are 375lbs according to the sheet.

Also the number on PRW's site is PRW 0835001

**edit the pressure could be wrong it was taken from a 3rd party site as PRW list nothing but fluff on their page. It also didn't mention if it was open or closed pressure.

unseenT/A

I believe they're the 3/8th studs

Yeah i seen them on PRW's site but as you said they really don't have any detailed specs about them.

I really can't wait to get on the phone with patriot monday.

Thanks

Doom86

NP man hate to see people get burned for damn good amount of money invested.

FWIW those a magnum knock off's which CompCams is "professional" enough to list what they are rated at and that is 350lbs OPEN spring pressure. Since comps are made of better grade steel I'm guessing the PRW's do not surpass this.

So if they are some how rated higher then the Magnums (not likely in any way) they are still too weak for a 375lbs open pressure spring. Which is what they list in the build sheet.

unseenT/A

Yeah well we'll see how much of a stand up company Patriot is come monday.

They've been pretty good so far,i just don't understand why they would put those rocker arms on there.

Appreciate it once again.

unseenT/A

Well i have to say,Patriot has proven to be a stand up company.

I called them on monday morning and told them one of the PRW rocker arms had broken and that i was annoyed that it didn't have the Scorpion rocker arms as the spec sheet has stated.

They couldn't answer as to why the PRW rocker arms were on there but with no hesitation they sent out my Scorpion rocker arms and i just got them today.

These are a 10fold improvement over the PRW's and i can't wait to get them on lol

lonesomeloser

Glad they sent you the scorpions, however it would still leave a bad taste in my mouth. What good is the assembly sheet if no one checks it or signs off on it.

74134bird92

That is sad to hear. Its hard to understand how something so obvious could slip through the doors. I am happy to know you had no issue getting it straightened out. Just wonder where other corners could have been cut.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Makes you wonder what other nice parts they "forgot" to put in.

It'd leave me pretty unimpressed too.

Sutoto2189

Not to burst your bubble or anything, but for the kind of money you spent on that motor, you might have been able to find a old 4bolt 350 block and start from their and build it to your taste. Also you would know exactly what you were getting when ordering parts for it aswell. Another thing, you might have gotten the same motor "as far as hp/tq goes" for less money. But never the less, sweet looking car, and i hope that everything works out for you in the end!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Wow surprised they used a SHP block for this build...might as well spent the same money and got the 4.125" bore and built a 401-406 motor right from the get go

Also that cam part number may be wrong but not sure... SHP block is setup to use factory OEM style hydraulic rollers and lifters, and that part number gives a retrofit...no reason to use such cam in a factory roller block. Plus that cam is HUGE. Its 248 deg duration. It should be pulling alot more than 5800 rpm. How does it idle? I bet its very choppy.

Glad to hear patriot backed up the rockers..They seem like a decent company to deal with and have good parts in the LSx world from what I've seen.

Blown84Bird

I've got a set of prw's #0235012. Been beating on them for about a year no problems .good looking car btw

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I also wonder how they dyno'd it with the timing and carb tuning off? Do they pull the distributor and carb for shipment?

unseenT/A

Well you guys have to understand when i went through with purchasing a crate engine about 2 years ago i orignally went with Blueprint Engines..

The Blueprint engine had failed on me and i was just sick of dealing with crappy customer service from Blueprint,so i went straight through Jegs and had my $4,500 crate engine fully refunded with no questions asked which was amazing on Jegs part.

When i re-purchased another engine from Jegs the customer service rep hooked me up with all sorts of goodies on my new Patriot motor (Free shipping,Free Quickfuel Carb,free distributor upgrade,and a free Dyno)

As the rocker arms go i just got the Scorpions on the engine and i have zero valve train noise,it's amazing lol.

Asfar as what you guys are saying about them cutting corners on the rest of the engine,i was also worried about the same thing.When i had called Patriot monday morning i was really fustrated and had told them what was on my mind.Ofcourse they aren't going to tell me what elese they did but assured me that nothing elese was left out or changed.

Overall i'm happy with the engine and i'm still learning,i understand that i could have built my own motor but at the time i didn't know much and it just seemd easier for me.


Thanks everybody.

Sutoto2189

Im not calling you out or anything, but did they charge you for an extra dyno or did they dyno it twice? Or maybe the question is, did they even dyno it at all?

unseenT/A

Well when i wrote the review i forgot to mention what jegs did for me,they were supposed to dyno it once.

Maybe they didn't dyno it at all. lol

It did come with a dyno sheet though

cuisinartvette

$100 for a dyno is DIRT cheap you done good, $500-$800 is the norm out here.

xch3no2

Sounds like a good reason to build your own engines, or buy a crate from GM.

goomaan

iTrader: (2)

Sorry GM Crates are garbage too. There is no more pride in assembly line work.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

The difference is I'm confident GM isn't shorting people on parts or HP claims. I'm also more confident GM would honor it's warranty.

unseenT/A

I had the choice to buy a GM crate after my Blueprint engine failed,they just didn't appeal to me.

Yes the scorpion rocker arms should have been on there from the start,but other then that i've had ZERO engine releated problems.I live in Queens NYC this isn't a track car and i'm not pushing 5-6k RPM's on the regular.I wanted a fast street car and i have one,450hp or not everybody i take in the car is impressed-i have a big smile on my face everytime i give it throttle.

I'll update if anything elese happens but as of right now it's purring like a kitten.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Excellent. I didn't mean to suggest anything. Just pointing out some advantages of the GM products.

IROC4U

who did you order the motor thru and how much was it total im in the market to buy a new crate motor after getting fd over by blueprint and getting my money back .....im looking for a good dependable company who isnt gonan screw me like blueprint and that rocker arm is alittle scary does make you think .....forged pistons or hyperpeunetic? i know it comes with either or the 450hp engine

TxTtopZ

Hello Unseen T/A!
First of all, nice car! It looks very well taken care of. I know its been a long road at this point and your happy with the performance of the Engine and that matters the most. So I'm not going to beat a dead horse! Just please take this advice for next time your in the market.

Having worked for a few race shops in my day, and having a family member who builds engines for a living professionally, there are some things that I haven't seen with your documentation. When you order an engine that's no secret, such as a widely available "packaged" engine, you should have a sheet with all the parts listed (as you do), and a spec sheet that contains what measurements the builder obtained when clearancing the engine. This includes all the bearings, rings, fastner tq. specs and possibly even cam degreeing details. This should be signed by the builder, verifying everything is as it should be.

Dyno testing should also have its own data sheets. There you will see the chart and then you should see another sheet that entails the information of who dyno tested the engine, what the temp. is of the room, the jets used, the timing details, fuel, carb, headers and also an a/f curve like a chassis dyno sheet... This sheet above all should contain your engines part number and what date it was tested. All this information is more less comfort info that lets you know "Hey, this has all been just for your piece of mind" and the readings on it should not be an exact number of what the engine is "advertised" but more less something close as its very difficult to make a motor make 450.0HP & 450.0TQ. Most of the time they are a hair over, since the testing conditions are ideal.

I am honestly, really unimpressed with Patriot. I know you could care less but this whole deal doesn't sound right. Those rockers, should have never been there and the only reason they would be is if it was specified by another customer to save cash. If I were you, I would be looking into what other options are available through Patriot as "alternate" parts so you can determine what IS and what ISN'T a possibility. Yes, there is a chance that, those rocker arms were the only change, but in all honesty, unless they sell another engine with those heads as a lower HP crate, there's no other way around why they were on there in the first place.

Now, why is all this coming out? Why do I care? Because I used to work for someone local to my area, who later was found to be installing factory Ford parts in a 347 we use to sell. Knowing the owner "K", as much as I did, this was no "mistake" on his part. I left that shop after getting a friend taken care of and was gladly accepted in another shop, not too far from where I was working. I have "heard" other stories which could be true but the thing that concerns me is, your engines HP and TQ is borderline for what factory parts will take for a certain time before they give up the ghost. I would op. for an extended warranty of some sort since they obviously cannot prove whats in there anyway. Just trying to help, sorry for the .02.

EDIT: I also forgot it needs to be DATED, very important.

RAIDER-RS

Hey what's up Unseen T/A? Glad that your happy with this motor . Can't wait to see it.

jplp29742

you are right these engines are junk

jplp29742

all the dyno sheets from them are carbon copies try laying one on top of the other and see,these engines are junk

jplp29742

i have one and when it was taken apart the crank and heads are ok but the machine work and pistons cam lifters rockers studs are all junk,cylinder bores off and not torque plate honed,camshaft core metal was a soft core material and it was wore out,pistons had blow by because of bores,the only good thing about these engines is that they can be rebuilt they are about a 1000.00 dollar value with heads.jplp

jplp29742

oh sorry forgot i had a whole two thousand miles on mine before it got so bad it had to come back out

TxTtopZ

Sorry to hear that. When it comes to crate engines I like plain old GM. Im sure there are some other good ones out there. I would like to see the dyno sheets compared. Paying extra for a copy is highway robbery!

Tobias05

Very content with my crate motor here too, but with what I've learned over the years I'm not sure I wouldn't have changed things up a bit 7 years ago.

Regardless, I would've saved alot of money not redoing exhaust, carbs, etc. over the years.

I just wish I wouldn't of let my friends talk me out of my CCQjet...

unseenT/A

Whats up guys,

Just giving an update on my Patriot Performance 383,still running good-no issues however i found out some information which leads to the reason why the PRW rocker arms were on there and NOT the scorpions.

Let's go back to the beginning of 2009ish when i was first in the game for crate motors,I really didn't know as much as i do now.That was when i flipped open the Jegs catalog looked through the crate motors and decided on a Blueprint 400hp motor through Jegs and let me tell you i was in for a ride with this Blueprint motor.

I'll just cut to the chase and say that the motor was complete GARBAGE,it was burning oil at the rate that i could add it,sounded like a diesel and could never get it running right.That was when i called Jegs and told them what i was going through and all the frustration this motor was giving me,to my surprise after some smooth talking Jegs agreed to take the motor back with a FULL refund what an amazing company,not only that but they also agreed to give me free shipping and carburetor with the next motor i would order.

Fast forward to about a month ago i really wanted to get to the bottom of why i had the PRW rocker arms on my motor.I do some research on the web about casting numbers and give patriot a call pretending i'm purchasing a car off somebody that has their motor in it (good i know lol ) so i give them the casting #'s on the heads and block it turns out i have the 500hp motor put out by patriot about 2years ago because they haven't used the PRW rockerarms in a while according to the guy on the phone.(3833S and a GM block #)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PAR-3833S/

So why did they give me the 500hp motor? well honestly i don't know,it must have been cheaper or sitting on a shelf in their warehouse at the time.Let's not forget the favor jegs did by taking my Blueprint engine back so it must have been cheaper for Jegs to send this to me then the 450hp..

Anyways,looks like i made out alright engine runs great and no complaints not to mention i avoided a TOTAL loss with my 1st crate engine.

Figured i'd give you guys an update on the whole situation that Patriot isn't cheaping out or "forgetting" parts for the new motors.I just received a totally different model # motor made at an earlier time on orders by Jegs to save money because of the refund they had taken back.

Videos will come soon i promise

RAIDER-RS

Congrats bro,

n2deep22

it doesnt make since though the crappy rockers that were supposevley put on a 450hp motor are good enough for a 500 hp motor ?????????

unseenT/A

Well obviously Patriot has learned from their mistakes and NO longer use the PRW rocker arms on their motors anymore.Like i said this is an older version of the 500hp motor put out when Patriot first started in the crate engine game.

two-if-by-sea

iTrader: (22)

but that's not what the dyno said
Have you gone to the track? I'm curious about 1/4 times

unseenT/A

No i haven't gone to the track.

I just got off the phone with Patriot and told them the whole story and read them the block numbers one more time to try and get the REAL build sheet/dyno #'s for this engine,he's going to get back to me (hopefully) once he goes through the paperwork from 2009.Supposedly this engine is registered to somebody in Illinois who purchased it but never paid in full back in 09'

LeadFoot88

iTrader: (1)

I am in the market to buy a crate motor in the spring/early summer. Any update on this? I have been on and off reading from this forum about crate motors for about a year and a half. I am still scared to buy a crate motor from darn near anywhere because someone always has had a big issue.

btw, new user name. Didn't like my other one lol.

I may end up going with these guys when I get back home if everything checked out for you. Thanks!

86_irocz-28

What kind of gas mileage are u getting with there 383?

unseenT/A

Isn't that great probably because i'm running a 3spd with no overdrive..however my T56 swap is almost complete i'm sure i'll see a nice jump in mileage..

midias

^ did you ever get the build sheet?

Not to change the subject but I have had no problems with my iron vortec patriot heads. Then again they only have about 100 miles on them as I just put them on.

unseenT/A

Yeah i have the build sheet motor has the aluminum patriot freedom heads