1985WS6transam

iTrader: (4)

anyone see this one yet?? it should attract quite a few hippies to lose some money in my opinon. sounds like a scam to me.

http://www.shoponlinefind.com/savefuel/

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

total bs

5678TA

water doesnt burn.. it steams.. you'd be better off running on propane..

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

I converted my cousins diesel jetta to run on grease

1985WS6transam

iTrader: (4)

for somereason the ad hooked me to read about the b.s and they are claiming it to basically run on hydrogen. a liter or water will create thousands of gallons of fuel to burn...

I just think its funny, GM has been spending millions of dollars on r&d hydrogen cars and this guy created something and can sell it for $200 bucks... stupid engineers at GM they should just look at the internet more often i guess haha.

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

i really dont think this kit is gonna work as well as advertised.. its more like a toy kit.. scam

titan

As for that site, it's close to a scam... not exactly, but close... Quote below:
As for the technology, it's real. Google for "orthohydrogen engine".
I have a 2.8 V6 sitting out back doing nothing, and have considered building what that site wants $200 to teach you how to do. It's not that hard actually, but I lack an oscilloscope for getting the frequency right, in the electrical pulses. I'm waiting till I can find one for a deal, or find someone who has one, and is willing to either lend it to me, or collaborate on the project.

I know what everyone is thinking... If you can build it, you would be the next Bill Gates... Wrong. An oil company already holds the patent on this, and will keep it buried in the back of their closet until they can no longer milk us for every penny we can spare. As for the automobile producers... Until the kickbacks (and I mean BIG kickbacks) from the oil companies can't compete with the potential profits from mass producing it. We won't see it. Even then, they still have issues with royalties, because "you-know-who" owns the patent. Sucks for us huh... It's completely legal to build and use your own, but to market it, would be copyright infringement. Thats how companies like that site get around it. They're not selling the technology, they're selling information.

Save $200, see attachments.

Lastly, some food for thought...
In 2007, the 5 largest oil companies (combined for easy math) reported profits totaling 123 BILLION. Thats $123,000,000,000. No, not gross earnings, PURE PROFIT. All operating, expansion, R&D, and all other costs already paid out. And still continued to argue with congress about "needing" their $18,000,000,000 tax break. We're told "it's the war" or "the hurricanes in the gulf drove prices up". Bullshit. Bush's answer was to propose a bill to make the auto manufacturers raise the standard on MPG consumption.

malcom2073

Sure it would work, if you could get more energy out of a system than you put in, it's like driving an electric generator with an electric motor. Eventually you're going to run out of energy (in this case, your cars battery).

I love all those free energy things. Everyone knows someone who knows someone who did it, but nobody has actually done it and gotten it to work. At least nobody I've seen first hand.

dirtywhiteZ28

Well I listened to some of that court stuff on TV the other day and from what I understood, it seemed as though the oil companys were trying to retain tax breaks on the premise that dispite what they made in profit, the bean counters break down of yearly expenditures revealled they actually paid more dollars in taxes TO the government last year than they made in profits. Exxon profited (ei. 18 billion and paid 27 billion in taxes) and the commitee persons didn't even bat an eye, whose really getting the money here, I see a pretty hefty tax rate sticker on evey pump I've used and if the companies pay that much then why am I paying an additional 57 cents per gallon when I buy this pretaxed fuel.

Bad5OGT

iTrader: (1)

Chrysler had a hydrogen engine ready to go back in the late 90s. They had plans to install it on city buses in NYC and L.A. until the U.S. government stepped in and stopped them.

Funny, mechanical transportation started in the 1800s with hydrogen/steam power and now we are trying desperately to get back to it.

rangerlaxdude

just to let you know they spent the 27 bilion on taxes and then after that they still had 18 billion left over thats how profit works

KMCCONKAY

IF YOUR TALKING ABOUT BROWN'S GAS CONVERSIONS. IT DOES WORK IT TAKE ABOUT 5 HRS TO BUILD AND INSTALL. BUT WHEN YOUR DONE IT WILL INCREASE FUEL ECONOMY BY ABOUT 25%

Guest

Sure, increase economy by 25%

Work there, dont ya?

These sucker schemes come up every time prices take a jump.

dirtywhiteZ28

Thats exactly what I am getting at.The government profited a full third MORE of the money than what the business did. If you think that the oil company was raping us then why not get mad at the gov. too. They made $27 billion from the manufacturer, then doubled the sales tax earned by unit and took that directly from every customer in the country. I wish the gov. was required to publicize how much taxes they collected in total from the public pump tax. I bet it would put even that $27 billion to shame. Yea thats a lot of incentive to turn their cheek on the american people and blame the market demand for $4 a gallon gasoline. Even the gov. own fully subsidized AMTRACK is required by US FEDERAL LAW to charge every single passenger the "Maximum Fair the market can BARE!!!".

Guest

Wow with an attitude like that, no wonder your sales are skyrocketing.

Dont knock what I dont know. Hey, I know enough to know water doesnt burn and isnt compressible. Maybe you'd like to explain how a non-combustible source increases fuel mileage? And by 25% no less. How about I disconnect 2 cylinders instead? Thats 25% less on my V8 and is free.

1985WS6transam

iTrader: (4)

I see where you are coming from, but they are selling it to run on hydrogen and advertising it to run on water so it would target more people i assume. I just dont see it working as it should, i see the concept that they have, but there has to "be more to it"

ryan91rs

iTrader: (1)

well i hate the scams and stuff. and check some of my posts. cars are not killing the environment India and China is. anyway with that said I do know this system to work. How do i know? Well a mechanic on my football team has built a small engine to run in the same way from water to hydrogen conversion. He explained the whole thing to me and it's not really that complicated. And yes the engine was small and no i was not there and i do not have pictures. I'll try to get them. With all that said it really is not the best way. So far the best way is to convert a diesel to veggie or natural gas (which if you have wells like most do in ohio) then with the electricity to compress it (pump) it's about 15 bucks and you go over 300 miles in a 3/4 ton truck. The conversion. over a grand! but I know for a fact a guy rins it and just torn his engine down at OVER 300,00 miles and it was super clean, like new clean. So water....nah, veggie, natural gas.... heck ya!

KMCCONKAY

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BTW YOUR NOT RUNNING THE CAR ON WATER YOUR CONVERTING THE WATER TO BROWNS GAS AND MIXING IT WITH GAS. SO TAKE IT EASY BUD. IM NOT DOGGIN YOU. I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOUR COMMING FROM. THE FIRST GUY THAT WANTED US TO INSTALL IT JUST CAME IN WITH A COUPLE OF BOOKS AND A SACK FROM THE HARDWARE STORE AND SAID CAN YOU DO THIS. IT TOOK LONGER TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO SET EVERYTHING UP IN THE CAR THAN TO DO ANYTHING ELSE. BUT IT DOES HELP WITH GAS MILEAGE. AT LEAST ON HONDAS WE HAVENT TRIED IT IN ENYTHING ELSE. EXCEPT A GENERATOR

KMCCONKAY

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Guest

Try using the advanced edit and it might work then.

So... Browns gas. lol.

ryan91rs

iTrader: (1)

methane? you mean hydrogen which happens when you put a n electrical charge to H2O..... right? anyone else do this in physical science?

mustangslayer86

Reminds me of a weight loss pill.

Probably a scam, but seems relatively cheap. I'm sure some people will try it.

KMCCONKAY

THANKS FOR THE TIP

KMCCONKAY

NOT SURE IF I REMEMBER THAT FAR BACK. WHAT WAS THAT LIKE LAST WEEK FOR YOU.
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BOTTOM LINE THE ORIGNAL POST ON RUN YOUR CAR ON WATER LOOKS LIKE A CHEEP RIPOFF SCAM.

Toehead

Defies the laws of thermodynamics.

Namely the clausius and kelvin plank statements of the second law. Enough said.

Guest

Dont speak thermodynamics around here, people might get confused.

Live Free

http://www.instructables.com/id/Sepa...er-Through-El/

run a system similar to that off an engines alternator

OH SNAP THEN YOU HAVE HIGHLY FLAMMABLE HYDROGEN AND HIGHLY REACTIVE OXYGEN!

Live Free

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7ZZAfZnvog

SDalt404

iTrader: (4)

wow... I wonder how the performance is....

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

What I'd like to know is since when does simply running an electric current through water cause water to decompose into hydrogen & oxygen? If that were the case every person that's been struck by lightning should have erupted like an atomic bomb. Or a 'hydrogen' bomb.

titan

The current has to be at very specific frequencies. That's why I need the oscilloscope...

ezysk

Last I heard, you can’t just simply add electricity to water and get hydrogen. Not even if you use AC current and alter its frequency.
Last time I looked into this you had to add something to the water to help the process. If you took stuff like Boric Acid to water, then put in a couple electrodes and ran current through the water acid mix, bubbles of hydrogen would form and be released from the water. But it was a very slow process. Definitely not fast enough to run a car.

Honestly, if there were a simple process to gain 25% more mileage at a low cost, it would already be on some of the new cars. I mean honestly someone is trying to say that one car company would not jump on the chance to have a competitive advantage over another one.

Sure, I think it is possible for brand new ways of doing things to emerge that would increase mileage, but I don’t think it would be out long before someone has implemented it in a production vehicle.

So far for me, the cheapest and easiest fix to gas mileage for my third gen is, putting a block of wood behind my gas petal so that I cannot mash it to the floor.

Now if only I could get my car to run on BS, I would get unlimited mileage. LOL

Toehead

No it doesn't.... Any kid with a dc power sources has decomposed water. All you need to do is add a tiny bit of salt, some electrodes, and a dc voltage source.

5678TA

stop typing in caps.. its like SCREAMING and disrespectful..

titan

Maybe if you want to just see bubbles. If you want to have a variable output, you need to be able to monitor, and tune the frequency. Depending on throttle position, you would be looking for a frequency somewhere between 10 and 250 KHz.
Also an additional coil at 19Hz will help to slow the burn process. You would want the hydrogen to burn through the entire stroke of the piston, rather than one quick explosion at the top. Same as gasoline.
You are right about the salt though.

400Z28Racer

iTrader: (4)

http://www.globalspec.com/FeaturedPr...romAreaId=1463

Toehead

Where would this 19 khz coil be placed.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Maybe I wasn't reading close enough, but I didn't see any mention of adding anything to the water in that article.

titan

Around the electrodes in the chamber.

I should have added earlier too, though salt does work as a catalyst, it is rather corrosive as we all know... Baking soda is more suited to the job.

Oh, and 400Z28Racer, that's a generator. We need an analyzer. It's not mission critical, but to get the most efficiency from the process, one would be needed. I'm looking to modify the engine so that it runs solely only on hydrogen, and therefore, need the analyzer... If you were to be building a supplemental system, you can easily get by without one.

Live Free

the reason why people who have tried this use gasoline to start it is it takes a few moments to begin producing enough hydrogen. The only way to overcome that problem is with a pressurized tank of hydrogen and oxygen produced prior to shutting down the car (which takes away one of the advantages of it not being explosive before running the car on it).

Toehead

If you want this engine to run solely on hydrogen, how are you going to produce the electricity to generate the hydrogen.

titan

I know what you're getting at.. So many people say "you can't generate enough power to sustain the reaction, and run an engine". That's why you try different things. Different materials and surface areas for electrodes. Different frequencies. Different catalysts. And any combination of any other variable you can think of, until you find what works. So far I'm thinking of a higher output alternator, and multiple batteries. A joe cell is also an idea, though quite a bit more dangerous to experiment with. Possibly using the joe cell to supplement the primary system, at various intervals/conditions. I'd prefer to minimize the joe cells use, as it is much more erratic and unreliable in its production (but produces much more hydrogen, faster), so using it as a supplement may be a better suited role for it.

I would like to ask Toehead, if you're simply asking these questions, waiting to debunk an idea, or theory, that you stop. I don't mind an intelligent conversation one bit, nor constructive criticism, but I think I feel a bit of a negative undertone in your questions. If you're wasting my time by asking questions to just make people think I'm stupid, or you're smarter, or that this is some kind of scam, then I'm not going to respond anymore. I'm not stupid, and you may be smarter, but there is no need to prove it here on the TGO boards. All I'm saying is, if you're asking these questions out of true curiosity, or are interested in the idea, then feel free to ask away. If not, then I am wasting my time, and choose not to do so anymore.

KMCCONKAY

a pressurized tank of hydrogen and oxygen? not sure that would be very safe. isnt that a sitting time bomb? how and where would mount it safely? too many stupid drivers out there? id love to go out in a blaze of glory. but not like that.

titan

Thats the beauty of these ideas. There is no gas under pressure, until the system is turned on, and even then, only a very very small amount. Thats why I've been looking into the joe cell. It generates the hydrogen much faster, than the standard electrolysis process. So (in theory of course) one could activate the joe cell and the chambered system at the same time, and the joe cell could handle immediate production until the primary system is reacting. Then the joe cell shuts down, and the primary is handling all output. When power is removed from either of the systems, they are under no pressure, and couldn't burn or explode even if you tried. I guess you'll have to find another way to get that blaze of glory!

1985WS6transam

iTrader: (4)

Hey guys, I feel this as an intellegent conversation, which at first I didnt think this whole idea was possible, so it interests me how this all works...

Toehead

A little bit of both. I'm a mechanical engineer by training and it is my nature to question anything that I havn't heard of or seen. My background tells me that a system like this is a pipe dream, but you never know. That is why I ask.

No need to get offended, i'm not on a personal vendetta against anything or anybody .

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i do not see this thing producing enough volume to run an engine.

92WhiteZ28

iTrader: (1)

certantly not an engine with enough power to lift my cars front wheels off the ground

titan

We have something in common. I too find myself not believing most of those "hey I heard about this one guy who (insert unlikely story here)..." but if it piques my curiosity enough, I will research it, just for the sake of the knowledge.
I'm a dreamer by nature, and I believe with enough pressure (will) behind it, you can make almost anything flow through that pipe.
Good deal then, let the conversation resume!

KMCCONKAY

im
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im not offend toehead.. not at all. all i was saying that a pressurized tank of hydro and 02 would be like a bomb in the car. if its not under pressure than cool.